Recent Topics
Some interesting ford charts and commentary
by Shannow
09/30/14 04:59 AM
How long may I use brake fluid after opening it?
by Ayrton
09/30/14 03:46 AM
A first at a gas station
by Apollo14
09/30/14 03:16 AM
04 Saturn ION, 2.2L Ecotec, PP 5w30, 8,000 miles
by linksep
09/30/14 02:23 AM
Carquest to stop selling wix filters
by 29662
09/30/14 12:35 AM
Anyone have the Amazon Fire phone?
by bvance554
09/29/14 11:14 PM
What temp does oil need to reach / maintain ?
by Johnny248
09/29/14 10:28 PM
2014 HD Recall #0159
by loneryder
09/29/14 09:40 PM
Educate me about Amsoil
by Wills05
09/29/14 09:24 PM
Aftermarket Strut Mounts - question
by JC1
09/29/14 09:01 PM
Arrowhead Stadium 142.2 decibles!!!
by chiefsfan1
09/29/14 08:55 PM
Mopar 0FE00292 cut open
by OVERKILL
09/29/14 08:28 PM
Newest Members
JoshsCummins, Bushman03, luceze, moog8008, Jay_K
51452 Registered Users
Who's Online
36 registered (Char Baby, bornconfuzd, bradepb, asharris7, Biggun, BISCUT, 4 invisible), 704 Guests and 145 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51452 Members
64 Forums
220006 Topics
3473710 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1084725 - 02/12/08 04:09 PM (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33683
Loc: New Jersey
I just bought a quart of VW Part number G 070 726 A2 - the part number that is specced for MT fluid for a 2008 VW rabbit.

On the bottle, it explicitly states that it contains (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine, as it has a warning not to get same on the skin. I did a quick search, and this is a fatty acid amine.

it is a molecule that looks like this:


Background info is as follows:

PHYSICAL STATE clear to slight yellow liquid

MELTING POINT 17 - 27 C
BOILING POINT 348 - 350 C
SPECIFIC GRAVITY 0.813


VAPOR DENSITY 9.22

NFPA RATINGS Health: 3; Flammability: 0; Reactivity: 0
FLASH POINT 170 C
STABILITY Stable under ordinary conditions

APPLICATIONS:
Application of Fatty Amines

* Cationic surfactants (disinfectants, fungicides, germicide, leveling agents, hair rinse bases, wood preservatives, textile softeners, dyeing auxiliaries, ore flotation. pigment grinding aids. anticaking agents)
* Amphoteric surfactants and Amine oxides (antistatic agent, textile scouring agent, ingredient for low irritation shampoo, liquid detergent, foam booster, oil recovery agent)
* Corrosion inhibitors and asphalt emulsifier
* Dispersants, lubricants, water treatment agents.

Fatty amine products are used as a dispersing agent or internal/external lubricant for benefits in polymer production of to facilitate and stabilize the dispersion of solid compounding materials to enhance processability, to decrease friction and abrasion of the plolymer surface, and to contribute color stability and corrosion prevention.

Members of Fatty Primary Amines

* Octyl amine ( CAS RN: 111-86-4)
* Lauryl amine ( CAS RN: 124-22-1)
* Stearyl amine ( CAS RN: 124-30-1)
* Oleyl amine ( CAS RN: 112-90-3)
* Tallowamine ( CAS RN: 61790-33-8)
* Cetylamine ( CAS RN: 143-27-1)
* N-Tetradecylamine ( CAS RN: 2016-42-4)
* Cocoamine ( CAS RN: 61788-46-3))
* Hydrogenated tallowamine ( CAS RN: 61788-45-2)
* Alkyl(C16 and C18-unsaturated) amine ( CAS RN: 68855-63-0)
* Alkyl(C14-18) amine ( CAS RN: 68037-91-2)
* Alkyl(C16-22) amine ( CAS RN: 68037-92-3)
* Alkyl(C8-18 and C18-unsaturated) amine ( CAS RN: 68037-94-5)
* Alkyl(C12-18) amine ( CAS RN: 68155-27-1)

SALES SPECIFICATION

APPEARANCE: clear to slight yellow liquid

AMINE CONTENT: 200 - 215 mg/g

COLOR, APHA: 80 max

ALKYL CHAIN DISTRIBUTION:
C18 80% + C16 15% + C14 4% (Typical)


Edited by JHZR2 (02/12/08 04:20 PM)

Top
#1084728 - 02/12/08 04:12 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33683
Loc: New Jersey

Top
#1084730 - 02/12/08 04:19 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33683
Loc: New Jersey
Oleylamine

RN: 112-90-3
MF: C18H37N
MW: 267.49848
bp (C): 147 (p=2 torr)
mp (C): 15 - 22
density: 0.81

Top
#1084825 - 02/12/08 07:04 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: JHZR2]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14549
Loc: Midwest
And the question or comment is?
_________________________
SNAUGHFLING: Laughing so hard you snort, then laughing because you snorted, then snort because you laughed! smile

Top
#1084919 - 02/12/08 08:42 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: MolaKule]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33683
Loc: New Jersey
whoops... I was interested in the fact that it actually explicitly listed a specific molecule that is utilized in the formulation, right on the label.

I guess the question is, given the uses of this compound, many of which are listed above, which do you think it is performing in a "75W" gear oil? How does this fatty amine compound compare to the current state of the art for the function it is being utilized for?

Thanks,

JMH

Top
#1084920 - 02/12/08 08:46 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: JHZR2]
bruce381 Offline


Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3324
Loc: Millbrae, CA
I'd say friction modifier
bruce

Top
#1084927 - 02/12/08 09:00 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: bruce381]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14549
Loc: Midwest
I'd say what Bruce said but add it is probably a multifunctional anti-oxidant/anticorrosion/friction modifer.


Current state of the art? No problems. Probably keeps the TAN stabilized while providing friction modification.
_________________________
SNAUGHFLING: Laughing so hard you snort, then laughing because you snorted, then snort because you laughed! smile

Top
#1085057 - 02/13/08 12:52 AM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: MolaKule]
jaj Offline


Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 893
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
If all the qualified chemists are guessing then the stuff probably has no function other than to act as a dispersant for some active ingredient that keeps falling out of solution and collecting on the bottom of the bottle in shipment and storage. If it actually was a super-duper component of the lubricant package, they wouldn't name it.

I think it's like the chemicals in food packaging - anything that is important to flavor is a secret - preservatives are listed for all to see!


Edited by jaj (02/13/08 12:54 AM)

Top
#1085114 - 02/13/08 07:00 AM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: jaj]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33683
Loc: New Jersey
this came from an imported bottle of gear oil. The european requirements for disclosure may be significantly different from ours.

As mentioned before, it was just interesting that they actually listed the presence of a technical molecule used in the formulation. Besides, say, an aliphatic hydrocarbon, which could easily be picked up in a GC-FID analysis, I doubt that much disclosure of any sort of formulation bits and pieces are really given in most formulations.

JMH

Top
#1085166 - 02/13/08 08:44 AM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: JHZR2]
oilyriser Offline


Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 7077
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Add an oxygen to the carbon next to the N, and you get a psychoactive substance - oleamide.

Top
#1085428 - 02/13/08 05:59 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: oilyriser]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
 Originally Posted By: oilyriser
Add an oxygen to the carbon next to the N, and you get a psychoactive substance - oleamide.
Is that good ?
_________________________
Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

Top
#1085430 - 02/13/08 06:03 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: MolaKule]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
 Originally Posted By: MolaKule
And the question or comment is?
Chem 101 guess friction modifier or disperesant The molecule looks like my driveway.
_________________________
Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

Top
#1085542 - 02/13/08 08:24 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: Steve S]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46652
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
 Originally Posted By: Steve S
 Originally Posted By: oilyriser
Add an oxygen to the carbon next to the N, and you get a psychoactive substance - oleamide.
Is that good ?


http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/299/1/332

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleamide

Top
#1085630 - 02/13/08 10:53 PM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: Pablo]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
 Originally Posted By: Pablo
 Originally Posted By: Steve S
 Originally Posted By: oilyriser
Add an oxygen to the carbon next to the N, and you get a psychoactive substance - oleamide.
Is that good ?


http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/299/1/332

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleamide
Pablo ,I am not exacty sure about it but it sounds good???
_________________________
Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

Top
#1085718 - 02/14/08 06:56 AM Re: (Z)-Octadec-9-enylamine fatty amine [Re: Steve S]
John K Offline


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 943
Loc: Loveland, Ohio
I don't know if I should be impressed with all this chemistry data or doze off like I tended to do in my Organic Chemistry classes eons ago........

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >