Rotella T 15W-40 CJ-4/SM with Triple Protection

[TucsonDon]

Over on the VOA forum there was a debate about the zinc and phosphorus levels of the Rotella T 15W-40. I thought I'd e-mail Shell and ask what they claimed. Here's what they said:

"Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 with Triple Protection Technology, our API CJ-4/SM specification product, typically contains about 1200 ppm zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorous as manufactured."

How much variability there is in the manufacturing process I don't know. I've seen VOAs that more or less confirm that, and other VOAs show lower numbers. I suppose one could assume Shell is saying something they know not to be true, but I find it hard to believe they'd do that.

Now here's the interesting part:

"...you may be interested to know that the oil was recently tested and found to meet the frictional requirements of JASO MA."

Now, a couple notes about that:

• It doesn't say so on the bottle. It may never say it on the bottle.
• Meeting the requirements is not the same thing as being certified
• The frictional requirements are only one part of JASO MA. But I studied the other components and found Rotella Triple Protection met most of them, with the friction requirements being the big unknown in my mind.

So there y'all are ... for what it's worth.

 

[dwendt44]

Enough people have e-mail Shell about getting Rotella certified by JASO, as they run it in their cycles with good results.
Shell makes Rotella for HD truck use, semis and such. But some bikers have discorvered that it works fine in their bikes and have been using it in them for years.
Works as well, and in some cases better, than overpriced cycle specific oil.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Consumables.html#Oil

 

[dnewton3]

Looks to me as validation for running the HDEO. But, that didn't stop me from using it before, either.

I think HDEO's are the (somewhat) unknow secret of the bike world. Motorcycle Consumer News did a few oil reports several years ago, and the HDEO VOA's and performnce was near (but not at) the speciality oils.

I do 5k miles O/FCI's in my 'Wing with HDEO's and I sleep well at night.

I'm seriously considering running the new 10w-30 Rotella, to see how it performs against the 15w-40 in regards to shifting. The 'Wings have never been know to "snick" between gears very well ...

 

[Titan]

Anecdotal evidence never proves that HDEO's are suitable for MC use....only because Anecdotal evidence never proves anything! All the anecdotal evidence I've ever seen/heard suggests HDEO's are at least fine, and may be superior to some MC-specific oils. I used to run the all the time in my bikes. There's a mid-80's Honda Shadow in the family with over 85,000 miles on it, always had Rotella 15-40 in it. Zero lubrication issues. Still burns no discernable quantity of oil between it's 4000-5000 mile oil changes. I trust Rotella or Delo for MC use.

All that said, last year I converted to AmSoil, at least partly because it holds grade better than the Rotella or Delo in my current bike. In my other bikes, I don't know how any oil held or didn't hold grade, because I never tested them.

 

[sunruh]

Don,

jaso ma isnt worth a pile of monkey carp.

go try valvoline 10w40 or 20w50 motorcycle specific that is jaso ma rated. i promise you will want to be changing it before you are out of the parking lot.
go try castrol 10w40 or 20w50 motorcycle specific. shifts better than the valvoline, but falls out of grade faster than you can say "i wasted my money". another jaso ma rated oil.

 

[BillWilson]

Rotella T 15W40 is $8.59 per gallon locally. I started running it in two 07 bikes last year and will follow with UOAs later this year. Shifting much better in the Virago and about the same in the SV650.

 

[TucsonDon]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
jaso ma isnt worth a pile of monkey carp.

Hey sunruh ... yeah, I know. JASO's requirements aren't all that restrictive, and carrying "JASO" on the label doesn't necessarily make it a good oil.

But for some, JASO is an important thing with regard to running the oil in their bikes. It's not for me, and clearly not for you. But for some it is, and what I offered in my initial post was simply one more piece of evidence that Rotella is good oil for bikes. It's not "JASO MA certified," so nobody should hang their hats on that, but all the pointers indicate the oil meets JASO MA specs in all ways except the ink on the bottle.

The other thing I wanted to point out was the zinc and phosphorus levels claimed. I've read on other forums people screaming about how "SM oils have no ZDDP at all!" That's flat wrong, of course, but people are screaming that. What my post of Shell's response indicates -- if one believes what they say, and I do -- is that Rotella has a decent level of ZDDP. Not the levels of some of the boutique oils. But to my eye -- and according to the UOA's I've seen coming back -- certainly good enough. When I factor in the $9/gallon the attractiveness of the oil just gets better and better.

 

[sunruh]

i tested the newest SRT 15w40 at the Trainrobbers Enduro in Bismark, Arkansas (june 2007). it was cj-4 rated.
my used sample showed zddp of 1226 and phos at 981 and moly at 3. according to blkstn, fwiw.

darn nice piece of property to race on. the crew from ardr was great as well. no sissy race that is for sure!!! loved it!!!

 

[TucsonDon]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
my used sample showed zddp of 1226 and phos at 981 and moly at 3. according to blkstn, fwiw.

Your phosphorus number is more in line with what I've seen in my UOA (868) than it is with the stated 1100 in the e-mail from Shell. That raises two questions in my mind:

Q1: Will the additive levels of an oil -- ZDDP in our discussion here -- diminish over time of use in an engine? If so, what happens to it?

Q2: I sense from other posts that spectral analysis has the possibility of some margin of error. Simple human error being one component; test equipment calibration being another. Anyone have a sense for the "degree of confidence" we can have in the numbers of any single UOA instance? (In general ... let's not argue about the quality of one analysis house vs. another.)

Originally Posted By: sunruh
darn nice piece of property to race on. the crew from ardr was great as well. no sissy race that is for sure!!! loved it!!!

Great! I'm only vaguely aware of "Enduro" from the 70's. I recall it being a race where the objective is not to ride the fastest, but to hit various checkpoints at the appropriate time interval. Am I recalling correctly?

 

[sunruh]

don,
that is a question that i dont think can be answered.

is a moly of 3 really just background noise or really a 3?

if a 3 can be background on moly, is a 7 in silicon really a 7?

is 1226 really just 1223 or is it really a percentage that is off?

on the larger numbers, it truely does not matter. however, on the small numbers it is significant.

yes, you are correct on your understanding of an enduro. typically, they set up sections with a time that no human can obtain, so you are actually racing and not just time keeping.

 

[John-r]

I've used it in motorcycles for years with great results.

 

[PT1]

Harley Davidson spec's the HDEO 15w40 oils as a suitable oil when needed and a MC spec 20w50 is not available. But lots of guys run them all the time and none ever complain of any adverse effects.

 

[another Todd]

dewendt44, RE your link: They say to never use 10-40 in motorcycles where the engine oil also serves the gear box. Why not, and what weight would you use in these engines? 5-40, 15-40, 20-50? My Yamaha dirt bikes specify 10-40 and the oil is shared. Currently running Amsoil M/C oil in 10-40 weight but plan on changing to rotella when my supply runs out. Have not yet decided though, whether to run 15-40 triple T or 5-40 syn.

 

[PT1]

Rotella meets Harley Davidson spec for an alternate to their 20w50HD360.

 

[02zx9r]

i run rotella 15/40 in my crf both sides

 

[02zx9r]

Originally Posted By: another Todd
dewendt44, RE your link: They say to never use 10-40 in motorcycles where the engine oil also serves the gear box. Why not, and what weight would you use in these engines? 5-40, 15-40, 20-50? My Yamaha dirt bikes specify 10-40 and the oil is shared. Currently running Amsoil M/C oil in 10-40 weight but plan on changing to rotella when my supply runs out. Have not yet decided though, whether to run 15-40 triple T or 5-40 syn.


How often do you change out the oil? I do mine after about every 2nd or 3rd ride, so I use the 15W since is cheaper and I change out frequently

 

[SD26]

I really like both the standard Rotella 15W40 and the synthetic in my road racing bikes. I think I first started using it in 1998. I don't get wound up on changing the oil every weekend either as I don't see the need.

Additionally, I don't have any excessive clutch issues even in the "long" term with the race bikes when compared to others I know that race using other motorcycle lubricants. I know I put on more miles because I teach schools too.

 

[TucsonDon]

I got back my second 3K mile UOA on Rotella 15W-40 CJ-4. The numbers are great ... I'm not posting them because they're boring ... same old, same old.

It was still a 40 weight, but at the low end.

 

[Jim 5]

For anyone needing to show JASO MA with Rotella 15w-40 for warranty purposes, I found this quote by googling "Rotella JASO MA":

Quote:
We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple
Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be
introduced (within the next 2 months) Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.
All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic
5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not
be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection
15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do
meet JASO MA."

If you have any additional questions please call us at 800-231-6950.
Thank you for your interest in Shell products.

Richard Moore
Staff Engineer
Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc.
Westhollow Technology Center, PO Box 4327, Houston, TX 77210, United
States of America


Credit to Tuscon Don for gathering this information. I have just reproduced a more fullsome description of the correspondence in case anyone needs to prove something to a motorcycle dealership. Hopefully this helps someone.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: another Todd
dewendt44, RE your link: They say to never use 10-40 in motorcycles where the engine oil also serves the gear box. Why not, and what weight would you use in these engines? 5-40, 15-40, 20-50? My Yamaha dirt bikes specify 10-40 and the oil is shared. Currently running Amsoil M/C oil in 10-40 weight but plan on changing to rotella when my supply runs out. Have not yet decided though, whether to run 15-40 triple T or 5-40 syn.


My new bike's manual specifies either a 10w-40 or a 15w-50. It has a shared sump. If I'm not mistaken, my triumph sprint st specifies a 10w-40 or 15w-50 M1 4T synth, or a 15w-40 that is JASO MA. That bike also has a shared sump.