Single weight or multi-weight, which is best?

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Naturally I understand the need and benefits of multi-weight oils. However, temperature ranges and all else aside which is the superior oil, a single or multi-weight?

Also, is it fair to say a single weight oil with slightly weaker additive pack can offer comparable anti-wear protection as multi-weight oil with stronger add pack?
 
The only advantage of a single grade oil is the minimization of viscosity loss early in the oils use. All oils will eventually thicken with time and use. The additive package makes the oil what it is today. Less than the appropriate additive level will result in a lesser product for automotive engine use.

The point is moot with fully synthetic oils, many have no viscosity index improvers. They behave as a multi-grade oil but do so naturally. In this way synthetic oils are essentially single grade oils. They just have the benefits of multi-grade oils. In fact they are generally more fluid at start up at all temperatures than mineral based multi-grade oils.

aehaas
 
Yeah, it's more about the natural viscosity index of the base oil that seems to be the determining factor, and even then the finished lubricant need not be marketed as a multi-weight as has been reported with Amsoil's single wts. (a 30wt behaves more like a 10w-30 for example purposes only).

VII's need be utilized for oil grades whose finished grade requires for greater fluidity over a designed temperature range that the base oil of lesser natural viscosity index cannot accomplish, and because the VII's themselves are of much higher viscosity than the base oil if not even a solid by themselves (so people have said around here), requires the base oil viscosity to be even lower in value so as to reach the target viscosities.

A natural tendency of VII's in shear stress is to align themselves in the region so as to cause a momentarily thinning of viscosity with values approaching the natural viscosity of the base oil itself, (remember the base oil is now thinner to account for VII thickening the final formulation - other additive effects aside). This shearing of a momentary sort helps to reduce viscous losses though presents thinner film serving as a buffer between the moving parts, making for a greater overall variance in lubrication regimens. This is where anti-wear additives pick-up the slack, where of course they can be effective (EP films don't work on substrates whose structural strength is less than that, for the base structure will give and the materials will be damaged/lost. ZDDP films on elemental aluminum for example). Dependent upon VII quality and the severity of shear/service, the VII's may be permanently sheared, lowering the viscosity value of the finished lubricant in service before/while oxidation begins to lead to thickening. The Overall thinning might be what is in mind for energy conservation, I'm still not fully engrossed in lubrication realities as yet...which reminds me - take this all with a grain of salt!

Off my box...
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
"temperature ranges and all else aside"?
Well... then nothing matters.

What I meant was more or less a general comparison of two conventional oils, (single and multi), under identical conditions, same service grade, with the ideal weights choosen for say a constant 70 degrees F.
 
Originally Posted By: AEHaas
All oils will eventually thicken with time and use.


I may have misunderstood but I was under the impression that as multi-viscosity oils age with use and time they thin out. EG: A 5W-30 may go to a 0W-20 or a 5w-20 ????
 
Quote:
Single weight or multi-weight


This question is not really answerable. As Dr. Haas pointed out...you could have a multiweight synthetic oil without VII's that would dominate a single weight that used thickeners. You could have a single weight synthetic oil with a large VI.

Did you really mean oils with VII's and oils without VII's?

All conditions within control an oil with less or NO VII's is superior. Far superior.
 
VII's are the boogie man. I've run single grade oil for 40 years in the same vehicle and have not replace the crank or rods and have not ground either main or rod journals. I'm at a about 600k miles. I'm using Chevron Delo 400, first 30w and after about 400k miles or so I stepped up to 40 weight to keep the oil consumption under control. The place for VII's in if you buy cheap oil and live somewhere that gets cold, like below 32F. If you live where it gets really cold synthetic oil would be a good choice. You could get the lubrication you need and ditch the VII's.
 
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
G-man???


What?


I thought you were running straight-weight 30 in your ride and would have a comment. :)

cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
G-man???


What?


I thought you were running straight-weight 30 in your ride and would have a comment. :)

cheers3.gif



Oh...yeah. I'm hoping the weather is going to cooperate soon so I can change it out. It's time. Straight 20 is going back in.

VI improvers have their place, but I am of the opinion that the less the better, and if you can use an oil with none at all that's even better.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
...you could have a multiweight synthetic oil without VII's that would dominate a single weight that used thickeners. You could have a single weight synthetic oil with a large VI.
All conditions within control an oil with less or NO VII's is superior. Far superior.

"Single weight with thickeners", I thought single weight oils didn't contain any VII?
54.gif
 
Well, analyze this recommendation then:
- In north america, use only SAE30 Fully synthetic oil
- In the rest of the world, use 15w50 mineral oil

Ehh, bu... err.. que?!? I run VP15w50 since it's cheap and availiable at the marina but...

Can any of you tell me the rationale behind this? Except that sae30 synthetic can hardly be found in sweden...
It's a Volvo Penta 5.0 V8 boat engine, or, maybe used as a mower over there?
 
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Originally Posted By: Pablo
...you could have a multiweight synthetic oil without VII's that would dominate a single weight that used thickeners. You could have a single weight synthetic oil with a large VI.
All conditions within control an oil with less or NO VII's is superior. Far superior.

"Single weight with thickeners", I thought single weight oils didn't contain any VII?
54.gif



They don't HAVE to (and shouldn't) but nothing (that I know of) stopping the usage VII's in a single weight oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Originally Posted By: Pablo
...you could have a multiweight synthetic oil without VII's that would dominate a single weight that used thickeners. You could have a single weight synthetic oil with a large VI.
All conditions within control an oil with less or NO VII's is superior. Far superior.

"Single weight with thickeners", I thought single weight oils didn't contain any VII?
54.gif



They don't HAVE to (and shouldn't) but nothing (that I know of) stopping the usage VII's in a single weight oil.


Oils with VI improvers are non-Newtonian and have to be labeled as multigrades according to the SAE standards.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
G-man - I have not seen this paragraph. Have a reference? Adding a thickener or pour point agent does not necessarily make a fluid (oil) non-Newtonian.


An oil with VI improvers is non-Newtonian in that vis change is no longer merely a function of temp, but of temp AND shearing.
 
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