02 VW Jetta 1.8T Mobil 1 5W40

[JohnVitamvas]

Here are the last four oil analyses for our '02 Jetta 1.8T. Prior to this I followed a 5,000 mile OCI for this car, and we have always used either Mobil 1 5W40 or Castrol Syntec 5W40. Given that this car sees mostly highway miles (50+ mile commute each day plus numerous sales trips within a day) with occasional hard use, I wanted to try some longer intervals. Overall I think this engine leads a pretty easy life. It is almost never used for short trips, but it does get revved out a couple times a day (what's the point of a turbo if you don't have fun with it?)

Comments welcome. I haven't paid for TBN measurements but I suppose that might be worthwhile?

 

[buster]

Wear is great but you must have some serious fuel dilution going on to shear down to a low 30wt oil. Flash point is also low. I'd send a sample to Terry Dyson and get a more accurate fuel number.

Is this an SM version of 5w-40? Additive levels look low. As much as I like VW/Audi cars, I don't like the way they destroy oils.

 

[mechtech2]

Do you have direct injection on that year engine?
There is a lot of mechanical squeeze pressure if you do, and that will chew up oil.

 

[JAG]

That can't be M1 5W-40. None of those analyses could have been. What's going on here?

Anyhow, whatever oil it was, the analysis looks pretty darn good for 10K miles in this engine that I also have. Some fuel dilution is the only semi-bad thing I see.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: JAG
That can't be M1 5W-40. None of those analyses could have been. What's going on here?


Jag - what are you basing this on? Mo and Na look right for M1??

Sure sheared consistently.

 

[JAG]

Pablo:
Moly is too high. Magnesium is way too low. Zinc/phosphorous way too low. Viscosity way too low even when taking into account any shearing and the fuel dilution.

 

[JHZR2]

wow... d1 is an extremely shear-stable oil. Wonder if they cheaped it up for the mass market, or if your engine is awful mean on the oil...

JMH

 

[JohnVitamvas]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. The first and third samples were probably 5W30, not 5W40. This particular sample was definitely 5W40, however.

Could the issue with fuel dilution be that the sample was taken after only a short trip? When I do oil changes on this car it is typically started cold and taken on only a short trip over to the garage (few miles).

Are you guys suggesting that the oil is shearing too much? Is that a function of being run too long? Or should I be looking into trying another oil to run in this motor?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Pablo:
Moly is too high. Magnesium is way too low. Zinc/phosphorous way too low. Viscosity way too low even when taking into account any shearing and the fuel dilution.


You think? Mo seems about M1 right. I don't know about Mg levels in this M1 variant. ZDDP does seem a might low, but some probably was consumed, and some lab error.

So anyhow, the lower vis ones are 5W-30.......

 

[buster]

John, Delvac 1 is very shear stable. When you have severe fuel dilution, no oil will hold up that well. It's best just to change it more frequently. As you can see here, wear is great but i'd probably step down to a 5k mile interval due to vis loss. In problematic engines, just change the oil more often.

*None of these oils look like 5w-40 D1 btw. I think something is not right.

 

[VeeDubb]

Does Delvac have moly?

I agree with the others. something looks way out of whack.

Did you change the oil yourself so that you know exactly what was poured in the engine?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: buster
John, Delvac 1 is very shear stable. When you have severe fuel dilution, no oil will hold up that well. It's best just to change it more frequently. As you can see here, wear is great but i'd probably step down to a 5k mile interval due to vis loss. In problematic engines, just change the oil more often.

*None of these oils look like 5w-40 D1 btw. I think something is not right.


Maybe I missed it (punchy today) where is the claim that this is D1? M1 Truck 'n SUV?

 

[JohnVitamvas]

I'm sorry. I confused this oil with my other vehicle. All of these fills are M1 10W30. Sorry guys. I had to go back and check my records.

The reason 5W40 comes up is because when Blackstone sends new containers the forms are pre-printed with 5W40 from my other vehicle's oil changes.

 

[JAG]

Here is what some of M1 5W-40 additives should be close to (taken from another guy's UOA):
Boron: 23
Magnesium: 405
Calcium: 2375
Phosphorus: 1152
Zinc: 1332
Molybdenum: 1

Here's another (consistent one):
Boron:24
Magnesium:423
Calcium:2527
Phosphorus:1181
Zinc:1337
Molybdenum:1

BTW, M1 5W-40 TDT = M1 5W-40 T&SUV = Delvac 1

Edit: just saw that the OP discovered this was M1 10W-30! Wow, this engine does indeed seem to tolerate thin 30 weight oils, at least if driven on the highway mostly. I noticed this years ago but hadn't seen data for a long time to reconfirm it.

 

[JohnVitamvas]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Edit: just saw that the OP discovered this was M1 10W-30! Wow, this engine does indeed seem to tolerate thin 30 weight oils, at least if driven on the highway mostly. I noticed this years ago but hadn't seen data for a long time to reconfirm it.


Yes, mea culpa mea culpa! I have too many vehicles' oil records to keep track of and I had 5W40 on the brain.

 

[buster]

Ok, that explains it. I'd stick with M1 10w-30 then. Uses very little VII's (Viscosity Index Improvers). Oil held up well and didn't shear all that much being it starts at 10 cSt. VI for M1 10w-30 is 147. Might not be using any VII's.

 

[Pablo]

Good gawd.....OK start over again....not Castrol, not M1 5w-40, Not 5w-30..........

Alright.......M1 10W-30 did pretty darn good.

 

[JAG]

OP: That's alright. Your UOA data is highly helpful to some of us. Welcome!

In the future, I think you should get a TBN measurement to gauge the remaining life of the oil. 10K miles is a lot in this engine even with mostly highway miles. Make sure your spark plugs are in good shape, your MAF is clean and oil-free (use CRC MAF cleaner), and your fuel injectors are clean since that may be why there is some extra fuel dilution.

How clean does the engine look inside? I'd guess it isn't squeaky clean when you look inside the oil fill cap. They are a bear to keep super clean.

 

[JohnVitamvas]

Yes again, sorry about the oil weight confusion. Posting before brain fully engaged apparently! Too many vehicles to keep track of and I just went by what the Blackstone report said. Duh. M1 10W30 is definitely the product in the case during all these changes.

I run copper plugs on the motor and they get changed out every 30k. The crankcase ventilation system is notorious on these cars and has been replaced with hard metal lines (the factory rubber hoses deteriorate). MAF has never been cleaned - it's never shown any residue inside it. It gets a new OE paper air filter every year (About 25k miles).

No visible blowby when opening the oil cap after the engine has been shut off. Quick visual under the cap shows only a small amount of varnish, mostly everything is very silvery looking (scientifically speaking... lol).

thanks for the comments, keep them coming now that I'm not inundating you with incorrect info.

 

[JAG]

I ran NGK copper plugs one time and in less than 10K miles there was enough erosion to open up the gap. I went back to stock NGK Platinums after seeing that and have been very pleased. They last about 35K without having too much gap growth. I also tried Denso Iridiums but the gap seemed to grow a little faster than the NGK Platinums; plus they cost more. As you can guess, I think you'd be better off using the NGK Platinums.

The cleanliness of your engine sounds very good considering everything. Awesome.