Exhaust Advice Needed

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Subject vehicle is a 2000 Chevy one ton van cutaway chassis motorhome with 15,500 miles on it. It's 28 feet long with a WB of approx 15 ft. Engine is 7.4L. Exhaust comes in 3" OD pipes from each cylinder bank, through cats, to a Y into a single 3" OD that runs several inches then enters the muffler (7"x9" by 24" long), then proceeds a considerable distance through 2.5" OD piping until behind the axle where it goes through another muffler/resonator (4" by 20" long) then out the tail pipe. I am looking at possibly getting better power/fuel economy if I free up the flow (without making a lot of noise though).

1) How restrictive is the stock muffler (the big one just behind the Y)?

2) How restrictive is the resonator (the little one behind the axle)?

3) How restrictive is the 2.5" pipe behind the muffler?

Or perhaps better question is why did they go from 3" pipe to 2.5" pipe. Shouldn't it be the same all the way? In fact, I thought the pipes should be maybe 2.5" to the Y, then step up to 3". They have essentially the reverse. OTOH, The 2.5" pipe may not be a problem, assuming the hot exhaust gasses cool enough after they work their way through the muffler that they have condensed and take up less space. The Banks system is a cat back and goes 3" piping all the way, which suggests that the 2.5 pipe is restrictive.

But maybe the big muffler is the main restriction (stock mufflers typically are restrictive) and that the resonator is more likely a straight through with sound absorbing perforations around the inner tube. In this case it would be a lot easier to just pop a new muffler in the existing piping, but don't want to do that unless it is going to help.

The other exhaust problem is the big muffler does not have much ground clearance and likely will get bashed off someday. I am considering taking to a muffler shop to have it turned so it stick upward more to get more ground clearance, but on the other hand, it might be easier to put an aftermarket muffler in it's place to get the ground clearance and improve exhaust flow for more power. Will this work?

Should I just turn the stock muffler or upgrade? Would like to keep cost relatively low, so just replacing the muffer is cheapest. Prefer not going all new piping cat back, but wonder what that smaller pipe is doing. I guess the 3" piping up front could be considered a sort-of resonator.
 
I agree, sounds like pipe size could be bigger.

I would be concerned with runing the stock muffler upside down. Reasong being is it may place it to close to the floor, and put excess heat inside the cabin.
 
For little cost you could buy a super cheap muffler that you know is more free flowing and try it out. It might rot out in a couple of years since it is cheap but in the mean time you would have tested the results and gotten more ground clearance. Then when it rusts off or sooner if you want you can upgrade to a better muffler or a cat back if it didn't help enough.

It does seem strange that they went from dual 3" to single 3" to single 2.5".
 
Lot of space up to the floor. Not likely to get too hot.

Well the combined 3" is only the maybe 6 inches to the muffler, but probably also the muffler.

I like the idea of a cheap flowing muffler. Just wonder how loud it would get. Hopefully not much since tailpipe is way back. Smaller case = louder, so need as big of a muffler case. Most cheap mufflers are small.
 
To have the muffler up front is a little odd. Especially with a resonator behind it - downstream.
Resonators are generally straight through, and non restrictive.
3" pipe all the way back with as large a muffler as will fit should help. But 3" pipe is not cheap to buy or have bent and installed.

Those two cats make decent mufflers, so maybe you could experiment with simply a straight pipe where the front muffler presently is.
 
Your biggest restriction throughout the system is probably the factory cats, however, I've had the same set up as yours and this is how I handled it. Replace the factory muffler with something aftermarket. Longer muffler will be quieter than shorter mufflers. Then run a 3" tailpipe from the muffler, no resonator. How long will it take you to recover the cost? Probably never will. How much torque will you gain? Enough you'll feel it was worth it. Is it going to be louder? Without a doubt. All depends on what your priorities are....fuel economy? torque? Quiet/Sound?
 
The smaller 2.5" pipe is there to increase the gas velocity and like you said the gases have condensed by a good amount at that point anyways.

As mechtech2 said the upgrade to a 3" pipe wouldn't be a bad idea. I would expect it to increase higher end power a little more (nothing seat of the pants of course) but will sacrifice low end a bit. How much? Can't say for sure unless you test. I'd think it would benefit from the larger diameter since I'm assuming it sees mainly highway driving. But then again it might be a reason for heavier lead foot :)

As for fuel efficiency increase don't expect to see much there. As c502cid said the cats will be holding back a good deal to.

Overall if you don't want to spend a good deal of cash I would just have your current muffler turned and save the $. The power won't be noticeable until your start changing the other components like manifold and cats to compliment the rest.
 
Paul, with 20+ feet of exhaust system to push through, I'm not sure up-stream mods would do much other than change the sound. I'd think you'd have to go way shorter and out the side to possibly make a performance difference.

Joel
 
2.5 inch true duals with an X-pipe and Maganflow mufflers, exiting in front of the rear tires on each side! Maybe add a small Magnaflow resonator right after each cat to cut down on resonance. Get some 2.5 inch Carsound Cats as well.

Should be mellow, moderately quiet but not loud, and give by far the best performance gain.

What diameter is the factory collector/manifold outlet? Even if it's 3 inch, stepping down to 2.5 inch will help keep velocity up, keep torque up in the low and mid range, and still help high rpm flow.
 
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Banks way too expensive. Likewise, Gibson. Talked to someone at Gibson and they felt that replacing the muffler in the stock piping would provide a lot of benefit, short of going the whole nine yards with headers etc. Also he said that their kits have you use the stock cats. He didn't think the stock cats were all that restictive. Considering there are two cats, one per cyl bank, I would guess they are not too bad either. May check out something from BearRiverConverters, which makes some nice mufflers in the Flowmaster style.
 
I had Ron Gibson build up an exhaust for me way back in 1991 when it was still Gibsons Muffler Shop in Yorba Linda California. He was the only one mandrel bending at the time and I had a custom 502cid big block. He really gave me an education that day of what works and what doesn't. I have a 2003 8.1 big block now running stock converters, a magnaflow internal x muffler and a custom 3" tailpipe. Runs great, quiet at idle, only loud when you really romp on it.
 
If there aren't specific inspection laws in your state preventing you from bringing it out the side, that's how I'd go. You may have stuff in the way. In that case, take the hope over the other side and bring them both out on one side. PA requires that the exhaust must exit from the rear of the vehicle ..even in pickups. It can't exit at the side.

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I never quite figured out why, but my wrench buddy custom bends exhaust for many pickups. All the tanks being internal frame mounts and whatnot tends to mean that all the exhaust come down the passenger side. People pay big bucks to split the exhaust and do the hop over the drive shaft (or behind the axle) to get the exhaust tips to point straight back. That is, it's a purely cosmetic action. Not that I find anything wrong with the job if all you're looking for is cosmetic enhancement. Otherwise you could just hang your single "fillintheblank" mega-muffler and bring a bigger (if needed) single pipe out at the oringinal location
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Factory cats were tortuously restrictive when pellets were used. Once they used honeycomb grids, restriction dropped dramatically.

That in mind, I have heard that there are efficiency gains by replacing the ceramic honeycomb with a metallic honeycomb.
 
So I just routed the exhaust on my pickup out the side in front of the wheel. Not a problem for passing through PA, just if I live there, right? Stupid law, so it seems.

Yeah, out the side on motorhome puts it by door and wife and kids would not like that, but with a hop it can come out driver's side, and they would love that, but alas, to much stuff in the way.

When did they start using honeycomb instead of the pellets? I have in my stable a '92 Ford, '95 Ford, besides the '00 Chevy MH.
 
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So I just routed the exhaust on my pickup out the side in front of the wheel. Not a problem for passing through PA, just if I live there, right? Stupid law, so it seems.


Well, I believe it was an inspection requirement after a couple of people broke down or parked in the winter and went to sleep with the engine running. They died from CO with the exhaust just ending under the body ..just behind the cab. These were trucks/snow plows/pickups. PA has traditionally been a very conservative state. In the early/mid 70's the inspection was every 6 months. If your car came with single exhaust from the factory, duals were not allowed. Commercial vehicles (pickups) had latitudes with headers and whatnot ..then they relaxed most of the exhaust stuff as long as heat shields and cats were in place. The inspection frequency went to once a year at the same time. I think that was an evolution simply due to too many cars having to be processed. Now you have a 3 month window before your m/y expires.

It would be unusual for anyone to get written for this. Even in-state vehicles would not routinely be ticketed as long as they have a valid inspection sticker. You just won't find an inspection station doing the install. They (police) just have too much other stuff to do these days. You may get a rookie state trooper who will stop and cite you for everything ..but it's rare.
 
Well, seems the easiest is muffler replacement. Need to find biggest can so it is quiet, yet free flowing. Flowmaster 70 Series might work. Also one cat hangs low. Maybe get shop to install the muffler and turn the cat.
 
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