Yamaha YZ85's seized (2)

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You guys bring up a whole other topic when you mention oil contributing to combustion. It's one that gets debated on the two stroke forums all the time, kind of like mineral vs syn and breakin.

Here's another link (http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/) from the RC guys on a carbon test they ran. Notice the last oil tested (belray) required 15% more fueling to maintain the same engine temps. A switch to this oil on a machine that was jetted on the edge with another oil could create a lean seizure, even though both were mixed at the same ratio. Doesn't make the belray a bad oil, just shows that at the combustion temps in this test it doesn't contribute much to combustion, where the others do. Something you would want to make adjustment for.

Also note the increase in hard carbon formation and scuffing running the 100:1 oil vs. the same oil at 50:1. So if you think you cuttin a fat hog running 100:1 oil escaping the evils of carbon and smoke, think again.

The longer you hold a twostroke wide open the more fuel it need. Load adds to it also. You could jet it perfect plug color for a 1/4mile drag race and burn it down running a mile. A tuned mx bike is jetted for short bursts at WFO. Take that same bike to the dunes and load it up with a paddle tire and hold it wfo for long pull and squeek it. 14.7:1, LOL. Not for long. 4 stroke gets away with it because it has a wasted stroke that helps cool the piston. A 2 stroke makes heat every stoke and doesn't have that luxury so uses the fuel/air as a cooling media, they need more. On a long pull the piston gets hotter and hotter and hotter, the pipe gets hotter and hotter increasing the scavenge which pulls more air which require more fuel and more fuel and if the machine isn't jetted fat it will reach a point of lean seizure or holeing the piston. Point is, the bike has to be jetted for it's intended use.
 
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Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Originally Posted By: wileyE
Point is, the bike has to be jetted for it's intended use.

Right on!


X2. I really need to stop agreeing with you two, but you both have helped me, so I figure I owe it to you!
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I would guess that with out looking at the parts that having both mess up would be the oil gas mixture .Would the lean gas mixture cause the piston to get a hole in it?
 
Jaybird gave good advice. Jet properly!!

No reason to blame the ratio, per se. However my experience years ago at the secret two stroke oil testing labs taught me plenty. I know I type the very same things over and over again. Sometimes it actually makes sense.

100 to 1 results is less power and more wear.
50 to 1 results in enough lube for most engines.
32 to 1 results in enough lube for all engines, except national level Kart engines.
16 to 1 can result in more power and is good enough for even the very highly tuned Kart engines.
8 to 1 can result in even more power, if you can get it to run.

I strongly suspect a highly tuned (motocross) 80cc two stroke, operated on the sand dunes, a task it was not designed for, need 16 to 1 for any hope of long life. I also suspect a fair expectation of engine lifespan in such situations is measured in the 10's of hours, properly jetted and lubed.

Disclaimer:

Not all engines respond the same. Please don't try to use 16 to 1 in your 250HP outboard (yes we did it and it worked). It simply is not necessary.

Since this is an oil forum, addressing the oil issue is how I responded.

That bike is likely too small for that task.

Chris
 
Originally Posted By: another Todd
Well actually he now says one seized the other he thinks burned a hole in the piston as it turns over but no compression. Fresh gas, Amsoil racing two stroke oil at 50:1.

There is your first clue... YZ's are small bore, high RPM. They need LOTS of oil. 32:1 is the recommended ratio. In high heat, high load conditions, (sand, desert) a larger main, or raised needle, or both, and 24:1 would be a better choice.
 
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