Amsoil ATF Vs. Toyota T-IV - Whats the real deal?

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Originally Posted By: byez
I always see people on the fence with this issue. Has anyone done an analysis on either? Any real world evidence on which is better for a Toyota?


The real deal is that Amsoil evaluated Amsoil ATF and Toyota T-VI long and hard, back in 2003-2004 before slapping on the OK to use label. I have many customers using Amsoil ATF in newer Toyotas with with no problems. Have not seen any/many UOA's though. We see so very few ATF UOA's on anything.....


I'm using Amsoil ATF in the track ripping granny driven Avalon...no issues.....
 
byez:

I posted a UOA on T-IV a few months ago that had been run for about 20,000 miles in my 2005 HIghlander, 3.3L V6, 5-sp AT. It was not impressive. I switched to Amsoil ATF and I've had zero problems.

I noticed your post regarding gear lube on the other forum. What year Highlander (and engine displacement) do you have?
 
Originally Posted By: dkryan
byez:

I posted a UOA on T-IV a few months ago that had been run for about 20,000 miles in my 2005 HIghlander, 3.3L V6, 5-sp AT. It was not impressive. I switched to Amsoil ATF and I've had zero problems.

I noticed your post regarding gear lube on the other forum. What year Highlander (and engine displacement) do you have?

I doubt that most of us on this forum are qualified to make such a conclusion about your ATF UOA.
 
I have used amsoil ATF in a 2002 Solara that requires T-IV. It used a 2AZ-FE 2.4L 4 cylinder. It did well on the butt dyno test, but I don't really know how well it works to reduce wear in those transmissions.
 
Critic,

While I'm certainly no expert at used oil or tranny fluid interpretation, I could figure out pretty readily that Toyota's claim that T-IV is good for 60k miles under "severe" conditions and 100k miles under "normal" service is bull.

With no towing and 60% highway miles on a regular basis, it wasn't like we were stressing the tranny. While the overall UOA was not bad, with only 20k on that fluid, it was clear it was not 60k fluid. Not without an inline filter and an additional cooler.

I trust the Amsoil ATF for a 50k run much more readily than I trust T-IV.
 
I drive an 03 V6. Fluid was drain & filled at 40km and again at 80km.

Planning on changing it every 24km with Toyota T-IV. Would Amsoil last 32km or even 48km? That would be the only way I would justify its price.

*In Kilometers*
 
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byez,

I see no reason whatsoever that Amsoil ATF would not last 48km (30k miles).

When you say you "drained" at those particular intervals, do you mean you dropped the drain plug from the tranny pan and refilled as needed, versus flushing the tranny?

Depending upon how you drive, I believe you'd be okay with the "drain and fill" every 24km and using T-IV. My understanding is that Amsoil is more costly in Canada. Is that correct?

Again, depending on your driving habits, I would not hesitate to take the Amsoil ATF to 80km. That's assuming you started with a tranny full of Amsoil and not a partial fill.
 
Originally Posted By: dkryan
Critic,

While I'm certainly no expert at used oil or tranny fluid interpretation, I could figure out pretty readily that Toyota's claim that T-IV is good for 60k miles under "severe" conditions and 100k miles under "normal" service is bull.

With no towing and 60% highway miles on a regular basis, it wasn't like we were stressing the tranny. While the overall UOA was not bad, with only 20k on that fluid, it was clear it was not 60k fluid. Not without an inline filter and an additional cooler.

I trust the Amsoil ATF for a 50k run much more readily than I trust T-IV.

First, Toyota states that the fluid is good for 60k miles under severe service (towing), but does not specify a specific service interval for normal operating conditions. The instructions are to inspect the fluid at predetermined intervals and replace the fluid at the first sign of discoloration, sediment, or unusual odor. Scion’s website stated a while back (it may still) that the fluid is usually good for 60k miles or more.

Second, what criteria were you using to determine that Toyota’s recommendations were bull? Were the intervals simply out of your comfort zone? After all, fluid technology has improved significantly since the days of mandatory 24k ATF changes. As a comparison, we no longer change our oil every 3000 miles, but about every 5000 miles.

Third, again, what criteria were you using that led you to the conclusion of T-IV not being capable of 60k miles of service? If it was visual appearance, then the fluid should have been replaced per Toyota’s instructions, even if it had not reached 60k. If it was by UOA, then I do not believe that you hold the credentials to make an accurate conclusion.
 
Quote:
If it was by UOA, then I do not believe that you hold the credentials to make an accurate conclusion.


Nor do I believe you hold the credentials to recommend or not recommend fluids.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Quote:
If it was by UOA, then I do not believe that you hold the credentials to make an accurate conclusion.


Nor do I believe you hold the credentials to recommend or not recommend fluids.

What makes you hold the credentials to, then? :???:
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Quote:
If it was by UOA, then I do not believe that you hold the credentials to make an accurate conclusion.


Nor do I believe you hold the credentials to recommend or not recommend fluids.

What makes you hold the credentials to, then? :???:


I have a Bach Sci in Chemistry, I have been involved with lubricants for 32 years. Sure, I now sell oil. Take it at face value, but when I see Suburbans smoke the factory recommended fluid towing in 20K, and Amsoil do the same exact service for 100K I don't need you to tell me Amsoil Universal ATF is a compromise.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Quote:
If it was by UOA, then I do not believe that you hold the credentials to make an accurate conclusion.


Nor do I believe you hold the credentials to recommend or not recommend fluids.

What makes you hold the credentials to, then? :???:


I have a Bach Sci in Chemistry, I have been involved with lubricants for 32 years. Sure, I now sell oil. Take it at face value, but when I see Suburbans smoke the factory recommended fluid towing in 20K, and Amsoil do the same exact service for 100K I don't need you to tell me Amsoil Universal ATF is a compromise.

That isn't even comparable. The Suburban takes Dexron and this take a proprietary OEM fluid.

Anyway, based on your statement, 99% of us who are on this forum should listen and not contribute then. At least I make an effort to consult with people who have credible in this field.
 
Quote:

That isn't even comparable. The Suburban takes Dexron and this take a proprietary OEM fluid.


It is comparable because when I swapped the Dexron III it was 2002 and people were saying the same thing, "a universal ATF is a compromise". When Amsoil added Toyota T-IV to the product, it was thoroughly tested. And now that's been on the market for 3+ years, I know for a fact there isn't some line of failed Toyota trannies with Amsoil ATF in them. There aren't any.

Quote:
Anyway, based on your statement, 99% of us who are on this forum should listen and not contribute then. At least I make an effort to consult with people who have credible in this field.


That wasn't my point and you know it.
 
my girl has an 05 corrola and it calls for T4. it has 93k miles on it and i know i have done one drain and fill. she said she thinks she had it flushed at one point in time but not enough for 93k miles. i checked it the other day and all seems to be well. good color, no burnt smell and she isnt easy on the tranny.. maybe corrolas are easy on atf who knows?
 
My 2006 Corolla takes 3L of T-IV in the automatic transaxle. I didn't believe that both the transmission and diff could both use only a tiny 3L of ATF but they do.

It costs me $AU 29 for 4L of T-IV and a drain and fill uses 1.5L. It takes the mechanic 5 min to do the drain and fill from the drain plug, so the grand total is $11 every service. Cheap insurance. Why wouldn't you do it. My gut feeling is that these transmissions run hot and are hard on fluid too ......
 
I saw in Redline's Product data sheet that D4 ATF was SUITABLE for Toyota IV.

Has anyone used Redline D4 in Toyota's where T-IV is the spec. fluid?
 
Critic,

Since I took the time and trouble to obtain the sample for the UOA of my T-IV and pay for it, I'll interpret it anyway I please. I know Arnie is always declaring a state of emergency out there, but I do not recall seeing where he declared you in charge of the credentialing committee for this board. Fortunately.

Blackstone suggested the T-IV be changed due to high wear metals. UnDummy agreed with that assessment. I trust UnDummy and Blackstone a great deal more than I trust you.

You chimed in on that UOA thread but had little to add constructively except to argue the existance of T-III with a poster. I don't recall your comments or interpretation of my UOA.
It's far too easy for you to criticize another person's interpretation than to try and make an educated guess based on what you see and other's qualified opinions.

If you look at the most recent UOA of T-IV (posted today 11/26/07), my numbers were a bit higher at 20k than his at around 11.5k, especially copper, iron, and aluminum. And with a TAN of 1.0 and shearing of almost 25%, it doesn't take a JPL scientist to figure out that my fluid is not good for 60k, your undying allegiance to Toyota and their owner's manual aside.

And since you rain supreme (not reign) at knocking threads off track, I'll put it back on track.

byez,

If the cost of the Amsoil ATF is too steep, just keep performing T-IV drain and fills every 24km. What's important is regular maintenance, i.e., the drain and fill, if you're not using a high quality ATF like Amsoil.

By the way, do you still have the OEM gear lube in the diffs?
 
Quote:
Blackstone suggested the T-IV be changed due to high wear metals. UnDummy agreed with that assessment. I trust UnDummy and Blackstone a great deal more than I trust you.

Then why don't OEMs hire Blackstone and unDummy to do their oil analysis and interpretation?

Quote:
It's far too easy for you to criticize another person's interpretation than to try and make an educated guess based on what you see and other's qualified opinions.

I lack the credentials to give you accurate info regarding your particular UOA, as does unDummy. Thus I'm not going to try to misinform you.
 
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