All-year-round oil for a 1994 AUDI?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
51
Location
Bulgaria
Hello guys,

I was thinking of a good all-year-round oil for my 1994 AUDI 80 (B4) 2.0E (petrol engine). I favour MOBIL 1 5W-50 Rally Formula, but I was wondering is it suitable for this AUDI engine since it was just approved for the VW 505 00 diesel engines standard. Here winters are cold, summers very hot, that's why I generally prefer the 5W-50 oils for my cars.
So I checked the other specs of this oil and found that it is API SJ/SL/SM approved, which got me to thinking that the ZDDP cencentration is not more than 800 pmm. If this is so, on one hand I think it is not so good for a flat tappet engine application.. On the other hand MOBIL recommends this oil for my engine here: http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/mobil_au/
Althought the ZDDP levels are probably not high, this oil has some SUPERSYN additive, which is meant to add some extra-protection..whatever supersyn is...

So is this oil good enough to protect my engine or shall I buy something else?
 
Hi,
SpeedyMan - You have made an excellent choice - this oil for instance is the ONLY SAE50 oil Approved by Porsche and Listed for use in Porsche engines from MY84

Use it with great confidence!

It has the same Pour Point as M1 0w-40 - which is excellent for your winter climate - that is why Porsche Approve it for Worldwide use (except for V8 Turbo Cayenne where the ONLY oil viscosity approved is 0w-40)

Regards
Doug
 
You could run any oil on Earth in that engine. I can't imagine any real benefit to speced synthetic. The design predates VW 502, likely VW 500 is what it actually calls for. If you really want synthetic, any A3 oil would be overkill. Castrol Magnatec 10w-40 would be about right quality for yearly changes. How cold does it get anyway? I doubt 50 weight oil is needed under any conditions, probally bogs the engine a bit. imo, the goal would be to use the lightest oil that does not produce excess wear. I'm pretty sure a light 30 weight with HT/HS about 2.9cP would suffice.

How is your knock sensor working? I understand that it commonly malfunctions on that engine...mine did.
 
Hi,
And thanks for your competent responce.
Doug Hillary, I am sure this oil is great, what I am more concerned is if the ZDDP levels will be sufficient for this old engine..

Auto-Union, here in the winters temperatures fall under -20 degrees Celsius, especially in the mountains, and in the summers are often above 44 degrees Celsius. This car also is an AVANT version and the gear box ratios are very close - so on the highway I often do above 4000 rpm for some hours and any high HTHS is probably a good choice.. :???:
Here 5W-30 is not to be found in the shops easily, I think it is not imported in my country. So I have the 5W-40 or 5W-50 options..

About the knock sensor - no problems till now.

Best regards!
 
Last edited:
Hi,
SpeedyMan - have no worry about the Anti Wear additives and the composition of M1 5w-50 or the M1 5w-40 lubricants available in Europe. They are excellent products

Use either with confidence

Regards
Doug
 
Are there a lot of counterfit oils on the market in Eastern Europe?

My point was that 5w-30 conventional oil is very cheap (here) and will handle the cold temps fine, while it would also work fine in hot temps considering the specific output of the engine you have. In the USA, this service practice results in perfectly fine engines. 50 weight oil is for turbos or high specific output.
 
Hello,

Dough Hillary, thanks for the encouraging advice! As I have read that this MOBIL 1 Rally Formula 5W-50 is VW 505.00 approved and API SM certified and contains 1000 ppm of ZDDP (too much for an API SM oil), which can be considered as enough for my engine. (I think the proper type of this engine is FLAT TAPPET).
I cannot understand why this oil does not have the VW 500.00 or 501.01 on the label. As I understood the earlier MOBIL 1 5W-50 did have 501.01, but since it has the 505.00 I think it fits the flat tappet application since most of the VW TDI engines, which require the 505.00, have FLAT TAPPET CAMS... or not?
If this is so - there is no doubt I can (and will) use it
smile.gif


Auto-Union - 5W-30 is a very rare viscosity in my country. Here the most common is the 10W-40 and 5W-40. 5W-50 is recommended for extreme driving, which is something natural for my car - at 160 km/h (this is 100 mph) this car does 4400 rpm, and this is my usual speed at the highway. Sometimes I drive with above 120 mph with above 5500 rpm. I think this oil viscosity is the perfect match for my case. And if this Mobil 1 5W-50 will protect the flat tappets - I will surely use it.

The other option is the REPSOL ELITE FASTER 5W-50. It is API SJ certified.
 
Last edited:
Hi,
Speedyman - Mobil 1 5w-50 is an excellent choice and will handle flat tappet engines very well indeed! It is one of Mobils "star" performers.
All bar one Porsche engine has flat tappets and as I indicated earlier it is Approved for use in all of its engines back to MY84 - and in its latest API SM/CF formulation!

As well that engine can generate high oil temperatures (as I recall from one I had) so the 5w-50 viscosity is a wise choice

Regards
Doug
 
It's not really the flat tappets themselves that are a problem in older engines, but the pushrod design that requires higher spring pressures. OHC engines, like Porsche uses now, don't have much to worry about.
 
Is this actually a flat tappet engine? I see those highway speeds, and yes, your oil temps must be elevated a bit.
 
Originally Posted By: Bob Olree
The Starburst Oil Myth -- The latest myth promoted by the antique and collector car press says that new Starburst/ API SM engine oils (called Starburst for the shape of the symbol on the container) (fig. 3 and 4) are bad for older engines because the amount of anti-wear additive in them has been reduced. The anti-wear additive being discussed is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP).

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatability was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

- Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s (fig. 5).
figure 5

Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)

Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.

Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.

- Thanks to Bob Olree – GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group
 
Hi guys,
Now I want to share my experience with the MOBIL1 5W-50.
It is a great oil, I can tell that it cleaned my piston rings because the oil consumption is really really low (or none) after 9000 km. of runnung with this oil. This is amazing! I do not know what kind of oil had been applied before I had bought this car, but obviously it did not have that good cleaning agents.
All this sounds really good..

BUT..

In the summer the engine generates more heat when running at low speeds of the vehicle and in city traffic. I suppose:

1. It is because of the VISCOSITY (I think better to get 0W-40 or 5W-40 next time).
2. And I suppose it is because of the PAO and the esters. Maybe synthetics does not have such HEAT CAPACITY (hope I am using the right term) as the petrol (group 3) oil has.
3. Damaged heat sensor of the cooling fans (I think it is working OK)

Maybe the first two factors work together, so my engine generates up to 98-99 degrees C. It generated up to 95-96 degrees with the previous oil Shell Hellix Ultra 5W-40.

What do you think? Thanks in advance
10.gif
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top