Briggs & Stratton better than Honda

[kargo27]

I found this interesting.

About 2 years ago I visited a small engine repair shop to ask about something.

The owner, a retired inventor of sorts was available to shoot the bull for a while.

I asked him if he liked Honda small engines b/c they ran so well, had an OHV and of course, they were "Honda".

He said that he could break down a Briggs engine in about 15 minutes and do a rebuild in about 45.

With a Honda it was a 3 hr job.

He then said that the Briggs engines are cheaper, have been around for a long time have a steady parts supply and are simpler to work on. Why would you want to buy a complicated, expensive to repair engine when you could get a Briggs & Stratton that does the same job cheaper?

After that conversation I had a newfound respect for the old workhorse (the Briggs engine, not the retired shop owner).

I don't think I'll ever buy anything but Briggs & Stratton powered equipment if I can help it...unless their quality goes downhill of course.

Karl

 

[Master ACiD]

the honda ohv isnt any more complicated than a briggs ohv, or a tecumseh ohv. is he talking about briggs flathead engines? yeah those are simple motors.

its the same argument that old shop owners make for the chevy 350 engine. you will never convence them anything but an american engine is better.
iffn you want a low performance flat head thats 1920's technology, gulps gas like its free and never really runs good or starts good then yeah buy a flathead.
but the rest of the world has moved onto better technology.

can you even buy flatheads anymore?

 

[SecondMonkey]

I agree completely. Honda engines are unnecessarily overcomplicated and overpriced just because they have a honda sticker on them. Yes, OHV Hondas are more complicated than an OHV Briggs, and their parts are more expensive.

There are a lot of complete morons that think hondas are better, but that's just because they are comparing unlike products. Sure, a high end honda motor will last longer than a low end Briggs, but compare apples to apples, and they will both last just as long. It runs a lot smoother than my honda.

Personally, I have a cheap 5hp Honda motor on a pressure washer, and I HATE it! It's almost new, and takes at least 5 pulls to start, it's extremely noisy, and vibrates like crazy.

On the other hand, I have an almost new Briggs 6.5hp OVH engine. I left it outside in the rain for about a year, and it was covered in mud. I squirted it off and changed the oil, and it started on the FIRST PULL!

 

[televascular]

I have a Craftsman push mower with a Tecumseh Briggs & Stratton which serves me very well, save for a recurring exhaust "pop" issue. However, the Honda equivalent is more powerful and more fuel efficient, and the increase in price reflects this. And, as with most cases, superior technology involves more complicated moving parts, which in turn makes it more difficult to service.

But you get what you pay for. Honda is the world's largest engine manufacturer, and their reputation for reliability is not undeserved. With regular maintenance (and maybe the occasional fuel system cleaner), you won't ever have to break it down for repair.

Am I biased toward Hondas? Maybe. But am I wrong?

 

[televascular]

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
I agree completely. Honda engines are unnecessarily overcomplicated and overpriced just because they have a honda sticker on them. Yes, OHV Hondas are more complicated than an OHV Briggs, and their parts are more expensive.

There are a lot of complete morons that think hondas are better, but that's just because they are comparing unlike products. Sure, a high end honda motor will last longer than a low end Briggs, but compare apples to apples, and they will both last just as long. It runs a lot smoother than my honda.

Personally, I have a cheap 5hp Honda motor on a pressure washer, and I HATE it! It's almost new, and takes at least 5 pulls to start, it's extremely noisy, and vibrates like crazy.

On the other hand, I have an almost new Briggs 6.5hp OVH engine. I left it outside in the rain for about a year, and it was covered in mud. I squirted it off and changed the oil, and it started on the FIRST PULL!


When it comes to the nitty gritty, both the B&S and Honda engines will probably be very reliable and last a very long time. Yes, the Honda mowers are expensive, but I have a deep appreciation for Honda engineering, so personally I would be willing to pay the premium. If you're looking just to get the job done, then buy the cheapest product and change the oil regularly. I'm not that kinda guy; for aesthetic reasons, I yearn to own products with superior engineering.

You say there are morons who blindly believe Hondas are better because they unfairly compare two unlike products. Then you go on to unfairly compare two unlike products.

Out of curiosity, do you feel that if any Honda engine were compared to its equivalent competitor, the Honda would most likely be inferior in quality or design?

 

[SecondMonkey]

Originally Posted By: televascular
But am I wrong?

Yes.

Originally Posted By: televascular
I have a Craftsman push mower with a Tecumseh Briggs & Stratton

First of all, what the heck is a Tecumseh Briggs & Stratton? Those are two different manufacturers.

Originally Posted By: televascular
However, the Honda equivalent is more powerful and more fuel efficient

NO. If the honda equivalent was "more powerful" then it isn't equivalent, is it? And no, they aren't more fuel efficient when you're comparing an OHV to an OHV.

Originally Posted By: televascular
Honda is the world's largest engine manufacturer

B&S makes more small engines than honda does.

 

[punisher]

Originally Posted By: televascular

Am I biased toward Hondas? Maybe. But am I wrong?


No, I think you nailed it. I have Tecumseh, B&S, Honda and Subaru-Robin powered equipment. The Honda and Subaru engines are workhorses, quiet workhorses. Just look at what engines are used on rental/industrial/professional equipment. Hondas pretty much have those markets sewn up, although Subaru-Robin is gaining market share. That being said, you do see a few Briggs Vanguards in heavy duty/industrial apps. Vanguards are top of the line engines IMHO.

Low end consumer stuff, I will take a Honda GC/GCV over a Briggs Quantum or Tecumseh flathead anyday. Much quieter, lighter, noticably lower fuel consumption seals the deal.

Just an opinion.

 

[SecondMonkey]

Originally Posted By: televascular
If you're looking just to get the job done, then buy the cheapest product and change the oil regularly. I'm not that kinda guy; for aesthetic reasons, I yearn to own products with superior engineering.

LOL! Briggs engines are way more than just getting the job done. They have been the leader in workhorse engines since before Honda even existed. And in fact, briggs engines are more tolerant of oil neglect than complicated hondas.

Originally Posted By: televascular
You say there are morons who blindly believe Hondas are better because they unfairly compare two unlike products. Then you go on to unfairly compare two unlike products.
No, I did not. I compared the cheapest Honda OHV with the cheapest Briggs OHV. The Briggs is FAR superior.

Originally Posted By: televascular
Out of curiosity, do you feel that if any Honda engine were compared to its equivalent competitor, the Honda would most likely be inferior in quality or design?

Inferior? No. Pointless? Yes. Why pay more for something that cost more to repair when a cheaper product will do the same job exactly as well for just as long?

 

[televascular]

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
LOL! Briggs engines are way more than just getting the job done. They have been the leader in workhorse engines since before Honda even existed. And in fact, briggs engines are more tolerant of oil neglect than complicated hondas.

B&S leads in the manufacturing of small displacement air-cooled engines. Their engines are reliable and easy to maintain as a result of keeping things low-tech, in the interest of TCO (total cost of ownership). When talking about small engines, Honda is undoubtedly superior from an engineering standpoint. It comes down to which is more important to you: total cost of the product, or total value of the product?

And as for your comment about neglect, do you have any support for that claim? From my experience with automobiles, Japanese engines can handle ridiculous amounts of abuse and neglect, despite complicated valve timing systems. Hondas aren't picky about oil choice, either. They wear well with pretty much any oil within spec.

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
No, I did not. I compared the cheapest Honda OHV with the cheapest Briggs OHV. The Briggs is FAR superior.

Can you support that claim? The cheapest OHV Honda is probably the GXH50, pulling 2.1 HP. Not sure about the cheapest Briggs. But in the world of small engines, a 1.5 HP difference is huge. You are skipping over two or three different Honda models within that gap.

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
Why pay more for something that cost more to repair when a cheaper product will do the same job exactly as well for just as long?
Originally Posted By: televascular
If you're looking just to get the job done, then buy the cheapest product and change the oil regularly. I'm not that kinda guy; for aesthetic reasons, I yearn to own products with superior engineering.

Why buy a Mercedes S-Class when a Geo Prizm will use less fuel and require less maintenance?

 

[Master ACiD]

i would dismiss secondmonkey as a fanboy. whatever claims he has are unsubstantiated at best.

 

[Dad2leia]

Just to add my two cents here. It is all dependant on beliefs, values, intended use of said engine, and what you consider to be a good value to you.

I've had experience with three of the manufacturers mentioned here: B&S, Tecumseh, and Honda. Me personally, have enjoyed the Honda engine the best, but at the same time, both the Briggs and the Tecumseh did their jobs well, and with good routine maintenance. From a noise standpoint, the Honda is the quietest one of the bunch, if noise is an issue.

It's all relative...

 

[T-Keith]

The time it takes to rebuild a motor, is not the only criteria in a "better" engine. Easy to work on is different as well. My experience with Briggs has not been good. They have numerous problems with governors and carbs, that I haven't found on a Honda or Kohler. The 6HP Briggs in my lawn mower had both the valve seats fall out.

Maybe the biggest thing Honda has over Briggs is that they use NGK instead of worthless Champions.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
Personally, I have a cheap 5hp Honda motor on a pressure washer, and I HATE it! It's almost new, and takes at least 5 pulls to start, it's extremely noisy, and vibrates like crazy.


Same with the honda engine (GC160?) on our pressure washer - extremely hard to start, noisier than a Briggs, and a gas hog.

It would take a very deep discount to get me to buy another Honda small engine powered product.

 

[JTK]

Funny, my 8yr/old GC160 has become a bear to start cold as well. Other than that, it's got more power and uses FAR less gas than any other side-valve engine push mower I've used.

 

[SecondMonkey]

Originally Posted By: televascular
Can you support that claim? The cheapest OHV Honda is probably the GXH50, pulling 2.1 HP. Not sure about the cheapest Briggs. But in the world of small engines, a 1.5 HP difference is huge. You are skipping over two or three different Honda models within that gap.

If you read my post you'll see I compared a 5hp honda OHV to a 6.5hp Briggs OHV. Aside from the minor HP difference, they are obviously competing models. The honda is a POS.

Originally Posted By: televascular
Why buy a Mercedes S-Class when a Geo Prizm will use less fuel and require less maintenance?

That is an invalid comparison. You're comparing power, comfort, and looks, which really has nothing to do with small engines. A B&S does the same job as a Honda, with exactly the same power, on exactly the same amount of fuel. If you're worried about the looks of your small engine then you have way too much time on your hands.

Originally Posted By: Master ACiD
i would dismiss secondmonkey as a fanboy. whatever claims he has are unsubstantiated at best.

I challenge you to disprove anything I've said. As I pointed out I also own a Honda. I also notice you've added absolutely nothing of value to this discussion.

Originally Posted By: Dad2leia
From a noise standpoint, the Honda is the quietest one of the bunch, if noise is an issue.

Originally Posted By: JTK
Other than that, it's got more power and uses FAR less gas than any other side-valve engine push mower I've used.
This is the problem with all the honda nuts. You are NOT comparing like engines! Honda makes cheap, low quality engines. Honda makes expensive, high end engines. Briggs makes cheap, low quality engines. Briggs makes less expensive high end engines.

When you talk about noise, Honda is NOT more quiet than a competing Briggs. Low end engines are noisy, high end engines are quiet, from BOTH manufacturers.

When you talk about power, Honda is NOT more powerful than a Briggs of the same rated HP. When you compare fuel usage, either flathead or OHV, BOTH brands use the same amount of fuel when you compare LIKE engines.

SHEESH! Is this concept really so hard to understand? A B&S Vanguard engine (made in JAPAN) Is every bit as powerful, quiet, long lasting, and fuel efficient as any Honda. A cheap, low end Honda motor is every bit as noisy, hard to start, and inefficent as any low end Briggs motor.

 

[kargo27]

I can see from the engineering standpoint that guys would want a Honda. I used to be that guy.

But for home use and for strictly utilitarian reasons, I think the B&S is superior. Old technology? Sure! But so is the wheel!

The newer B&S engines seem to be really close in technology to the Hondas and I was really surprised how quiet they are. My brother in law is the worst when it comes to adding or changing oil. He had a late model push mower with a B&S engine and I'll tell ya, that thing started first pull and didn't smoke a bit! He was mad because he couldn't wear it out so that his wife would let him get a self-propelled.

Hondas have their problems too. A friend of mine bought a power washer from Home Depot and it had a nice Honda engine attached to it. Well, he used it about 5 times and the thing conked out on him. He took it back to Home Depot and after a lot of fussing with the management there, they sent it off to find out that there was a manufacturing defect in the top end (I'm not sure exactly but if it had an overhead cam then I think that it either wasn't getting lubed properly or wasn't machined correctly). Later he found that there was a recall on them. No big deal, no manufacturer's perfect and we know that Honda makes decent stuff.

But I have to tell you. That old shop owner opened my eyes when it came to B&S products.

Growing up, we had a B&S 2 hp edger. My dad bought it from WoolCo. We ran that engine for 34 years without a rebuild and I think it still has the original spark plug. No smoke, no oil burning! Granted, an edger doesn't get as much run time as a mower but still, you have to be impressed with the longevity!

Karl

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
Originally Posted By: JTK
Other than that, it's got more power and uses FAR less gas than any other side-valve engine push mower I've used.
This is the problem with all the honda nuts. You are NOT comparing like engines! Honda makes cheap, low quality engines. Honda makes expensive, high end engines. Briggs makes cheap, low quality engines. Briggs makes less expensive high end engines.


But JTK IS comparing Honda and B&S "cheap, low quality" engines. Honda hasn't produced at side-valve engine in years. Honda's cheap entry level engine just happens to be the GCV160 which has, as JTK said: "got more power and uses FAR less gas" than a side valve engine of the same displacement.

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
When you talk about power, Honda is NOT more powerful than a Briggs of the same rated HP.

Is that really what you meant to say? Brand X is NOT more powerful than Brand Y with the same rated power. Profound statement.

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
When you compare fuel usage, either flathead or OHV, BOTH brands use the same amount of fuel when you compare LIKE engines.


As I said, Honda hasn't sold a flathead in YEARS. If you want to compare entry level Honda to entry level Briggs, the OHC uses less fuel than the flathead. Sorry.

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
SHEESH! Is this concept really so hard to understand? A B&S Vanguard engine (made in JAPAN) Is every bit as powerful, quiet, long lasting, and fuel efficient as any Honda.


It's too bad B&S can't make an engine as good as the Vanguard. Those really are good engines. (You do realize that Briggs doesn't have anything to do with the Vanguard except buy them and put their name on them, don't you?)

Quote:
A cheap, low end Honda motor is every bit as noisy, hard to start, and inefficent as any low end Briggs motor.


You are definately wrong on the inefficiency part. My experience and the experience of countless others has been that the cheap, low end Honda is much easier to start and quieter than the flathead Briggs.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
If you read my post you'll see I compared a 5hp honda OHV to a 6.5hp Briggs OHV. Aside from the minor HP difference, they are obviously competing models. The honda is a POS.


So you are comparing the Honda GX140 (140cc) to the 206cc Intek? Or what two engines are you comparing?

 

[Dad2leia]

Just to interject here flatlandtacoma, I didn't even realize that Honda ever made flathead small engines. When did they, and were they comparable to the B&S engines in discussion?

 

[SecondMonkey]

Oh my [censored], you're so clueless it hurts!

Originally Posted By: flatlandtacoma

But JTK IS comparing Honda and B&S "cheap, low quality" engines. Honda hasn't produced at side-valve engine in years. Honda's cheap entry level engine just happens to be the GCV160 which has, as JTK said: "got more power and uses FAR less gas" than a side valve engine of the same displacement.

Again, that is the problem. It is STUPID to try and compare a flathead briggs to an OHV honda. They are different machines, designed to do different things! Briggs also makes very cheap Intek OHV engines which in my experience are much better than Honda's entry model OHVs. Whatever the HP rating is, both briggs and honda are the same when you're comparing the same number and the same valve configuration.

Originally Posted By: flatlandtacoma

Is that really what you meant to say? Brand X is NOT more powerful than Brand Y with the same rated power. Profound statement.
Are you really that dense? Any Briggs engine rated X HP is exactly the same power as any Honda engine rated X HP. X can be any number from less than 2hp to more than 35hp.

Originally Posted By: flatlandtacoma

As I said, Honda hasn't sold a flathead in YEARS. If you want to compare entry level Honda to entry level Briggs, the OHC uses less fuel than the flathead. Sorry.

Again, comparing an OHV engine to a flathead is stupid. Most Briggs engines are OHV too, just because Briggs makes some flathead engines does not in any way make them inferior to honda.

Originally Posted By: flatlandtacoma

It's too bad B&S can't make an engine as good as the Vanguard. Those really are good engines. (You do realize that Briggs doesn't have anything to do with the Vanguard except buy them and put their name on them, don't you?)

B&S designs and manages them with B&S company dollars. They are made by B&S by any logical examination. Honda contracts out parts of some of their engines to other companies too.

Originally Posted By: flatlandtacoma

You are definately wrong on the inefficiency part. My experience and the experience of countless others has been that the cheap, low end Honda is much easier to start and quieter than the flathead Briggs.

Again, you're the only one who's wrong here. Comparing a flathead to an OHV is stupidity. Most low end Briggs engines are OHV above 4hp. As I've explained many times, an OHV Briggs and an OHV Honda both have the same fuel efficiency and power.