Going to try Wilson Combat lubricants

[Tempest]

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Why can't they develop safe gun oils that have extreme pressure and anti-wear additives?

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One reason I use Weapon Shield. Reasonably non-toxic (not that you want to drink the stuff) with no solvents. If you have health concerns about the product, call or E-mail George Fennell at the link I provided above. He is the formulator of the products and has always been very frank and open about his products (he also formulated FP-10). What can it hurt to ask?

Also look into Gunzilla. Supposedly plant based (esters I assume) and non toxic.

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And tell all of the manufacturers of gun bore cleaners and gun oils and gun greases to keep their stuff.

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Pretty much my feelings with just a few exceptions.

 

[Mystic]

I want to thank you for telling me about MC-25 and also Jardine's Custom. These products have not arrived yet but if they work out I will have a bore cleaner that I can use indoors or out and hopefully a grease that will get the job done lubricating my gun.

If Jardine's Custom does not work out I might try Weapon Shield. But I am really getting tired of trying these super gun lubes that turn out to be a joke.

Perhaps by the very nature of the design of a semi-auto no gun oil or gun grease can really get the job done. The revolver people are happy. All they really need is a good cleaner. Not much oil required for a revolver.

 

[Tempest]

Your welcome. That's what Bitog is for!

I think you'll like the grease, best I have used.

I found a couple of reports on another forum on corrosion protection:

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This test was simple, I took some spare SIG 229 grip screws, degreased them and treated them with...
-Breakfree CLP
-Militec-1
-Weapon Shield
-Gunzilla

I then put the screws into my T-Shirt pocket and ran on the treadmill for an hour, after which I put the wet/sweaty screws on a plate and let them sit overnight. I did this for three nights in a row. (Important note, my perspiration is VERY corrosive and has caused me endless trouble in the past with tools and firearms)

This morning I got the following results...

-Control screw: Slight surface rust in the slot and on the threads
-Breakfree CLP: Slight surface rust in the screw slot
-Militec-1: Distressingly heavy surface rust in the screw slot
-Weapon Shield: No corrosion at all on the screw
-Gunzilla: No corrosion at all on the screw

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Well if i wasn't already sold on this stuff I'd be now, 3 or 4 weeks of me sweating (I've had stainless steel pocket knives rust on me) on this firearm, crawling around in attics, ETC I just wanted everyone to know I could find NO rust, not 1 speck, now there was plenty of crud (sweat salts) in the roll pins, under the take down lever, around the sights, but no rust, no grime that would have hindered this firearm in any way. I will never go back to my old cleaning stuff, EVER, I just placed another order with WS and can't wait until it arrives (actually it for my trucks), got enough firearm stuff for now but will be getting more soon.

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And from Sig forum: http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/2911089101/p/2
All of this is very informal of course.

 

[Mystic]

Actually even Hoppes No. 9 is not as effective as it once was. It had some dangerous ingredient/ingredients which were removed and made it less effective.

I don't think there has been much in the way of research on gun cleaners and gun lubricants for a long time except on the part of a few individuals and a few companies. It kind of makes me wonder why considering guns are still important to the military. But maybe the government feels they will just make more weapons when the old ones wear out and maybe the government does not worry much about M-16s jamming during combat.

Stealth fighter aircraft are probably more exciting than the M-16s carried by infantry.

My opinion is that most of the gun cleaners and gun lubricants available are just plain simple junk. A person has to try to find the few good ones around.

Now most people do not care because they shoot their hunting rifles, shotguns, and handguns only a few times a year and they can get by with just about any gun oil.

And in the case of the military whoever submits the lowest bid on some CLP will probably get the contract.

Just my opinion: There is really no excuse with the technology and chemistry that we have today that there are not several brands of effective, safe, and non-smelly gun cleaners available.

Just my opinion: With the technology and chemistry that we have today there is no excuse that there are not several brands of effective, safe, gun lubricants, both oil and grease.

If a few individuals could develop some good products there is no reason why some big company or the government could not have developed something.

In war the guns are still important. No matter how effective the fighter aircraft may be somebody still has to go in armed with a rifle and maybe a handgun as a backup weapon.

The police still have to have good handguns, shotguns and rifles.

 

[harrydog]

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But I am really getting tired of trying these super gun lubes that turn out to be a joke.

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Just curious. Specifically what is it that makes so many of these gun lubes turn out to be a joke? I've heard so many people say that one gun lube is SO much better than others. How is that determined? It's not like you can run a UOA like with an engine oil.
I've used lubes from Militec-1, FP-10 Weapon Sheild, Wilsons, Slide Glide, Gun Butter, TW25B, anda few others that I can't think of at the moment.
They all really perform pretty well and it's difficult to say which is best.
So I'm curious as to how others are determining that some are so inferior and some are great.
By the way, I'm not talking about corrosion prevention. I'm talking about lubrication.

 

[Mystic]

Well, like you said, the main purpose of a gun oil or gun grease is to lubricate. I noticed with the Gunbutter that after I fired my gun using it there was some new wear on the gun barrel. If Gunbutter was such a great gun oil is should not allow as much wear as other gun oils.

I noticed gradual wear using Hoppes gun oil-about what you would expect. If you shoot your gun a lot there is going to be wear. I was looking for some gun oil or gun grease that can greatly reduce wear. If I can't find anything very greatly better than Hoppes gun oil I might as well use Hoppes gun oil.

 

[Tempest]

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So I'm curious as to how others are determining that some are so inferior and some are great.

Of course there is no real way to tell without significant shooting and measuring of parts across different guns. But I think one way is to see how well the oil hangs around with a lot of firing. I've had my little MK-9 so hot that you could not touch the slide, and my Ruger MkII so hot that the trigger was hard to touch. In both cases the Weapon Shield was still very visible and doing a superb job of keeping the debris in suspension and not letting it cake up. This is just the "oil" part of it and does not even include the AW/EP portion of the product. Clean up with just some more WS was very easy. I would love to test it on some full auto toys but I can't afford to play that game.

 

[Mystic]

Personally I think there has been a lot of progress made on gun cleaners but not as much made on gun oils. In the past a person had fewer choices when it came to cleaning a gun and I pretty much stayed with products like Kleenbore CLP and Hoppes No. 9.

There are some cleaners today that I like a lot better. The MC-25 from Milcomm seems to clean BETTER than Hoppes No. 9 but it does not have a strong chemical smell and you can use the MC-25 indoors. So what is not to like about that? I don't mind the smell of Hoppes No. 9 outside but I don't like to use it indoors. Sometimes I don't have a choice about cleaning indoors or outdoors. If it is cold, windy and dusty, dark outside I need to be able to clean my gun indoors. I don't like even Hoppes No. 9 indoors. I don't know how anybody would be happy using some bore cleaners indoors. Some of them smell like chemical factories.

But I still have not found a gun oil I am really happy with. If you shoot your gun enough you will still see some wear even with some of the best gun oils I could locate. People who only occasionally shoot their guns will not really notice this. If somebody shoots a hunting rifle only a few times before hunting season (to get sighted in) and during hunting season that person is not really going to notice wear on their rifle. The rifle could probably last for decades.

But if somebody is shooting a box of ammo a month in a handgun that person will notice wear more readily. That is the sort of person who will try to find a gun oil or gun grease that will greatly reduce wear. Otherwise, if a person shoots their handgun only a few times a year that person might as well use Hoppes gun oil. Maybe by the very nature of guns it is not possible to really reduce wear no matter what you try. Or maybe inspite of the importance of guns nobody has ever done any real research in how to reduce wear in guns.

 

[Tempest]

There actually was a wear test conducted by the Canadian police a decade ago with different lubes. It can be found HERE

 

[Mystic]

That is really interesting. I find it interesting that there seems to be a difference between the KleenBore TW25B and the Milcomm TW25B. Are they not the same product? The grease I have right now is Milcomm TW25B grease. And the cleaner is MC-25 from Milcomm. But I have some KleenBore TW25B oil. I wonder why the difference? Does KleenBore get the TW25B from Milcomm or do they have the right to produce a similiar product but it is not really exactly the same?

Apparently the Milcomm grease is pretty good. And it will not flow off a gun like oil. So maybe I will lube the guns with the grease but when I go out to shot I will put some oil on also.

I like the MC-25 cleaner from Milcomm pretty good. So far I have no complains at all about it.

 

[Tempest]

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I find it interesting that there seems to be a difference between the KleenBore TW25B and the Milcomm TW25B.

Me too, though it might just be batch variation or some product that sat on a shelf for a while. I would doubt that they would take the time to make 2 different formulations. It's good stuff, but it is interesting to note that a dry lube and an oil beat it out for wear control. Makes me wonder about it's AW capabilities, and happy that I am using FP-10/Weapon Shield (same formulator).

Did the Jardine's grease come in yet?

 

[Mystic]

No, the grease from Jardine's Custom has not arrived yet. When it does arrive I think I will put it aside for a while until I give a fair test to the TW25B stuff. Then I will test the Jardine's Custom stuff.

At this point I am very impressed with the Milcomm MC-25 gun cleaner. It is water based and the only thing I worried about was perhaps some possibility of corrosion. I can use it indoors and it really did do a nice job of cleaning the bore of my Glock Model 22. It cleaned faster than Hoppes No. 9! And the gun was pretty dirty too. I had shot quite a few rounds. So why use some smelly bore cleaner when a safer and not smelly bore cleaner will do a better job? No matter what the results of the testing of the TW25B products I think I will stick with the MC-25 cleaner.

I figure the TW25B products are at least adequate. Heck, the military uses TW25B for some of their weapons-at least the grease anyway. But I will let the testing be the determinator if I continue to use the stuff or not.

I can't wait to test the Jardine's Custom stuff but I feel I need to hold off and test the TW25B stuff first.

Thanks for supplying the testing that the Canadians did. How come this sort of testing apparently does not take place in the USA? Guns are important and is anybody really trying to find out how gun oils and gun greases compare it wear reduction? Seems important to me.