Picked up a screw in the tread area... reliability

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Once the hole is fixed, realistically, is it safe to take this tire to its limits? It's a Y-rated tire. Sometimes, when no one's around, I like to open her up. How safe is it on a tire with previous damage? Is there a specific fix procedure that's better than others?
 
Several here will insist "plug it and forget it, cause you can do it yourself for $ .50 and save a bunch of money". For safety's sake, take it to a quality shop and have it pluged,then patch over plug. Or use "mushroom" style plug/patch repair unit. Either, if properly done will restore tire to full usefullness.

Seems that probably 75% of the items causing punctures that we remove have some type of threads on them. Bolts, screws, drillbit-ended bolts. MANY of them are the same fasteners we see daily holding cars TOGETHER!! Bet if your ride is 18 months old I can get under it and find where a fastener has fell out!

Bob
 
I have worked as a tire tech. Tire plugs usually always do the trick. Its only when plugs don't work that the tire is dismounted and a patch applied.

I would say yes it is safe to take it to the limit. If a patch or plug fails it would probably leak slowly.

A cracked rim, cracked rubber, bulges etc. these are the things that you should be worried about.
 
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Once the hole is fixed, realistically, is it safe to take this tire to its limits? It's a Y-rated tire. Sometimes, when no one's around, I like to open her up. How safe is it on a tire with previous damage? Is there a specific fix procedure that's better than others?




As you know a repaired tire loses its speed rating. I used to vehemently and categorically object to tire repairs due to safety concerns -- until I started getting weekly flats due to a construction site nearby (littered road). I have never had a problem with self-vulcanizing plugs. The biggest risk with plugs is moisture seeping between the plies of the tire, eventually causing delamination and potentially catastrophic tire failure. An additional patch on the inside of the tire won't prevent that type damage.

I wouldn't go over 65 with a fixed tire and I wouldn't use one during the wet season at all. Just my opinion.
 
No matter how you slice it, repairing anything involves risks.

In the case of a punctured tire, there are 2 situations that must be dealt with - the damage due to the hole, and the damage due to operating the tire underinflated.

The damage due to the hole is fairly easy to deal with:

1) If the hole is too big, there's too much damage, so the tire shouldn't be repaired.

2) If the hole is in the sidewall, this is an area of large movement, and repairs tend to tear, and patches don't cope well with this movement, so the tire shouldn't be repaired.

3) If the hole is in the outermost rib if the tread, the belt edges are there and this is an area of high stress, so the tire shouldn't be repaired.

4) The repair should "bridge" the damaged area - and a "patch" does that.

5) The air retention must be assured - and a patch does that.

6) The hole has to be filled to prevent water from getting to the steel belt (thus preventing rust), and a plug does that.

Having said all that, a plug works most of the time and for many "That's good enough". But plugs (and plugged tires) have a higher failure rate. The question becomes "How much risk are you willing to accept?", remembering that a tire failure at high speed can sometimes have tragic results.

This is why a plug / patch combination is the only approved tire repair method.

But what about the damage due to operating the tire underinflated?

I'm hoping everyone reading this understands that underinflated tires have a greater risk of failure. If not, allow me to assure you that every day tire manufacturers test tires to failure (quality assurance), by overdeflecting them.

So the question becomes: "how long was the tire underinflated, and how much underinflated was it?"

Any signs of "Run Flat" should disqualify a tire. Upper sidewall abrasion, rubber dust inside, abrasion inside, etc are all signs of the tire "running flat".

But lesser amounts of underinflation are difficult to see in the tire. This is where the risk is. If you have any idea of how long or how much your tire was underinflated, then you are in the best position to assess that risk.

So to answer Pete's question: Clearly a punctured tire has been damaged, so the speed capability has been compromised. That's why many tire manufacturers say speed rated tires lose their speed rating after a repair. But this is a "risk" kind of thing and most of the time, the folks asking this question are police fleets - and also clearly, a police car only rarely uses that speed capability, so some tire manufacturers say it is OK to repair speed rated tires - ONCE!

I think this comes down to how much stress you are going to put the tire through. If you're just going to use the tire like a normal, but responsive, tire, then, sure, repairing a speed rated tire is fine - and you can probably use the speed capability from time to time.

But if you are racing the tire (autcrossing is not racing in this case), then using a repaired tire is a bad idea.

I know I spent a bit of bandwidth to try to explain this. I hope I've been able to properly convey the issues.
 
FWIW, our fleet maint would NOT authorize a patch on a pursuit vehicle. All tires with punctures or foreign objects were replaced.

Also, up until recently, I never had an issue with a patched tire. My most recent patch started to leak, VERY slightly. I'm sure that if I had a plug/patch combo, it would not have.
 
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Plug/patch is the best. Of course if the degree of angle is too great (think it was 30) we wouldn't fix it. The only correct way is to have the tire fix pulled off the rim so you check inspect the inner liner. Drill out the wound with a carbide tip, glue, patch, and put repair sealer over the patch the scuffed are. If the wound path is clean, water enters and will start rusting the steel cords. My 2 cents worth.
 
Thanks everyone. The tire did not lose any pressure, so it was never operated underinflated. I took it to the shop and they patched it this morning. Not sure if they also plugged it... I guess I have to call back and ask.
 
Yeah, but with the tire on the car, it's not easy to find the spot...

But I seem to be getting a slight vibration now at around 70 mph felt throughout the whole car, not as much on the steering wheel - the tire is on the rear axle.

When I asked them if they rebalanced the tire, they said no. They just mark the tire's position against the rim, and afterwards they just align it on the mark. Not sure if this is a common way to do this. Is the patch and plug so light that it doesn't warrant any additional balancing weight? Or maybe they just didn't realign it properly. In any case, I will have to go back there I guess...
 
Should have DIY plugged it and forgot about it. Never had a balance issue or a leak with this method.

Yes it needs to be rebalanced. Not because of the plug/patch though, because it was dismounted.

Ow by the way, if the hole was not leaking then why did you patch it?
 
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It was leaking. As soon as I tried to pull the nail out, I heard a familiar hiss. So I pushed it back in and drove to the tire shop.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yeah, but with the tire on the car, it's not easy to find the spot...

But I seem to be getting a slight vibration now at around 70 mph felt throughout the whole car, not as much on the steering wheel - the tire is on the rear axle.

When I asked them if they rebalanced the tire, they said no. They just mark the tire's position against the rim, and afterwards they just align it on the mark. Not sure if this is a common way to do this. Is the patch and plug so light that it doesn't warrant any additional balancing weight? Or maybe they just didn't realign it properly. In any case, I will have to go back there I guess...



I think it is time to examine the tire more closely.

Yes, if done properly, you don't need to rebalance the tire after the repair.

But the vibration is concerning. It's just possible the tire is starting to separate.

To check get the tire off the car and roll it around. If you find any bulges, the tire is scrap.

And while you are at it. find the repair and mark it's location on the sidewall, That way it will be easy to find later. If you are anal like me, you come back periodically to check it.
 
Yes, the vibration concerns me more than the repair itself.

Have that wheel rebalanced. If the vibration goes away after the rebalance, then reappears again after some time passes, then replace the tire.

Sometimes, when the tire is spin balanced, it can be determined that the tire has separated.
 
Had the tire rebalanced. The vibration is gone. However, the shop only used a patch, no plug.
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"Had the tire rebalanced. The vibration is gone. However, the shop only used a patch, no plug. "

Don't worry about it! Still better than plug only.

Before any real problems/danger show up, you'll be feeling shake/shimmy at low speeds and vibration will reapear at highway speeds.(Might not be true of the general public, but we'er dealing with an "A" grade anal BITOG'er here!)

Best,

Bob
 
Originally Posted By: alreadygone
"(Might not be true of the general public, but we'er dealing with an "A" grade anal BITOG'er here!)

You've got that one right!
smile.gif


My BMW indy shop already thinks I am nuts after I came to them with my UOA report showing traces of coolant and moisture and asking them to "fix it". Yet, I am not appearing to be losing any coolant, so I don't know where this glycol is coming from...

Anyway, sorry for the slight OT and thanks again for the help everyone.
 
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