Need Recommendation for BMW M5

[Tim]

Car will be driven in Rochester, NY 6 miles each way. Will be garaged overnight, but not during the day.

My brother recently transferred to Rochester and thought about selling the car as it will be rather ill-suited for short commutes in snowy Rochester. But the car suffered much of its depreciation in the last few years while he's had it, so he decided not to take the hit.

My concern in the winter is that even after a 6 mile drive, the oil will still probably not be flowing optimally if he stays with a 40wt. The car will not be used at all for longer trips.

My initial thought is a top quality 0W-30 oil might be best, again, assuming the car will be limited to these short commutes. Such an oil will on average be closer to the correct viscosity than a 5W-40, for instance.

I see Amsoil has changed their 0W-30, I don't see where Redline makes a 0W-30...are there any other options? Are the Esso XD oils available in Rochester?

Or do you think my 0W-30 thoughts are out in left field? He would be aware that his HTHS will be in the mid-high 3s vs 4.5+, so he'd need to be careful with this 400hp beast.

Thanks,

Tim

 

[Tim]

Looks like HTHS will be more like the low 3s if he went with the Amsoil anyway...

 

[JustinH]

That car will be useless in snowy rochester.

Trade it in for a awd subaru..

 

[Lonnie]

Driving it around in the show will take care of any depreciation value that may be left. One good bump should handle that. Driving this car on showy roads should be about as safe as driving in the the fog with your eyes closed. The oil won't have a ghost of a chance of warming up, no matter what viscosity you pick. You'll get it just warm enough to collect a lot of moisture and spread it all threw the engine. Six months of this kind of treatment and you will have oil that looks like asphalt. If you insist on driving I would change the oil every month and use something like Amsoil 0w-30 with the Amsoil oil filter. And I would try to take if for a long drive as often as possible. If no I'd get a little front driver and show tires and save the good car.

 

[Tim]

Quote:

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That car will be useless in snowy rochester.

Trade it in for a awd subaru..

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If you read my post, you'd see that my brother has already determined that he will keep the car.

So your advice falls on deaf ears....

 

[Saab9-3]

I am sure he is already doing this, But plugging in the car to get the oil a little warmer when its at home couldnt hurt. As for a oil visc to choose, I am no expert, but living not to far from Rochester, a 0w30 sounds good. I was running XD3 0w30 but now am going to try GC, although I am not driving 6 miles.

 

[jaj]

You mention 400HP so I'm assuming you mean an E39 M5. It drives really well in the snow with proper snow tires to the factory spec (235/45x17). The huge torque low down makes it very controllable and pretty much unstoppable.

If the car was built after March 1, 2000, then run Castrol Syntec 0w-30. The low viscosity will help the engine start after a cold soak all day. I've run it in my 2003 and it works fine regardless of how hard you drive it.

 

[Craig in Canada]

I second the opinion that it will NOT be useless in winter driving. He will have ground clearance problems before he has traction problems - leave it at home when it snows heavily and the streets aren't properly cleared. I also have an E39 driven all year, as does my father, but they aren't M cars.

Also, tell him to pay heavy attention to rust protection - rusty M cars are so sad to see

. Get a product like Wurth body cavity protection spray and do the insides of the doors (ie. straw up the drain), inside the rockers, areas unside the wheel well liners, inside the trunk lid, inside the front fenders, near the front lip of the hood, around the trunk lock cylinder etc... Get under the car with a can of Wurth Stoneguard or Amsoil metal protector HD and hit all the seams and welds. Unfasten the wheel well liners every springs (don't need to be removed) and clean all the crud out of there.

For oil - I'd second a look at GC, M1 0W40 or venture into 5W40 Amsoil territory. He will be garaging the car overnight so it will never see full overnight cold. Daytime temps are rarely as bad. Do a UOA to see how bad the fuel dilution is.

I will point out that corrosion can be easier to prevent in colder conditions. Don't feel tempted to heat the garage at home or the salt will go crazy every night while it's sleeping. Keep it cold between washes.

Craig.

 

[Tim]

Ok, now we're getting somewhere!

I will compare the low temp properties of the mentioned oils...

He will be putting snow tires on.

BTW, he moved to Rochester from Chicago, so he is not unfamiliar with winter. The big difference is he took the train to work in Chicago and will have to drive in Rochester, and a short trip, at that.

Thanks for the assurance that the M5 won't self-destruct at the first hint of snow

Tim

 

[Tim]

Wow, this is kinda interesting.

I just looked at the D5293 results at -30 and HTHS for AFL 5W-40 vs the oil I run in my cars, Schaeffer's S-9000 5W40.

D5293 was 5121 cP for AFL vs 4311 cP for S-9000.

HTHS was 3.7 for AFL vs 4.57 for S-9000.

Now, I realize there is more to recommending a cold weather oil for a 400hp engine than just the CCS and HTHS numbers, but given what we know about the Schaeffer's stuff, why wouldn't I just tell him to take a couple jugs of my S-9000 home?

Honestly, I think I'd feel better running the Schaeffer's in this car than either the GC or the Mobil 1 0W-40.

Anybody think I'm nuts?

 

[teaelle]

if you use 0W-30 u will suffer burning a lot of oil in the M5

they are known for burning oil and i think u should use Motul 8100 5W-40 or other high HTHS oil which is good for the M5 engine

 

[jaj]

Castrol 0w-30 doesn't have the highest consumption I've seen on my M5. A little consumption's not a bad tradeoff for good lubrication at start up. My engine uses a quart every 1800 miles running 0w-30 Castrol.

The M5 engine has an oil-to-water heat exchanger that heats the oil very quickly so sludging isn't a problem so long as the engine heats up. I commuted 6 miles each way last year and I had full running temp on the oil by the time I was half-way to work (in traffic).

 

[jaj]

Quote:

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Wow, this is kinda interesting.

I just looked at the D5293 results at -30 and HTHS for AFL 5W-40 vs the oil I run in my cars, Schaeffer's S-9000 5W40.

D5293 was 5121 cP for AFL vs 4311 cP for S-9000.

HTHS was 3.7 for AFL vs 4.57 for S-9000.

Now, I realize there is more to recommending a cold weather oil for a 400hp engine than just the CCS and HTHS numbers, but given what we know about the Schaeffer's stuff, why wouldn't I just tell him to take a couple jugs of my S-9000 home?

Honestly, I think I'd feel better running the Schaeffer's in this car than either the GC or the Mobil 1 0W-40.

Anybody think I'm nuts?

---

Tim

You're definitely not nuts! But, you are over-thinking this a bit. The M5 engine likes ester and pao oils the best, and in the winter, maximum convenience (like being able to start after sitting outside for the weekend) is more important than a few points on HTHS or CCS numbers.

Hence, I'm recommending GC, a mostly PAO engine oil that meets LL-01. I'm sure M1 0w-40 would work just as well, but since I haven't used it myself I can't comment.

 

[Hammer]

Quote:

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The M5 engine likes ester and pao oils the best,

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Did your M5 whisper this into your ear?

Hammer

 

[shortyb]

Can't really add anything that hasn't already been mentioned, but I'll give my

.

Oil-GC, M1 0W-40, or TRY the Schaeffer's. Whatever oil, do at least 1 UOA to get baseline condition. Especially to monitor the fuel dilution. More UOAs would provide more insight, but its up to you or he to decide.

E39 M5 is an awesome all-weather vehicle if treated with respect and equipped properly. Its heavy, has plenty of torque, a superb traction control system and brakes, and is very communicative. I would suggest some Nokian snow tires. There have incredible snow/slush/ice traction and stand up to wear fairly well. Thats something that can't be said too often for the Blizzaks in heavier cars like this M5.

Final suggestion- Get that beast out for a long drive as often as he possibly can (or call me and I'll be happy to oblige

). Its such a nice cruiser that is also quite suitable for some mountain road fun with a big grin factor. He as already taken the depreciation hit and has decided to keep it, so he should get out and enjoy it.

 

[Craig in Canada]

I know this isn't a tire thread, but...

I would also have recommended Nokian, but I've been told by a local Nokian dealer that they specifically DO NOT recommend their tires (at least the WRs) for BMWs.

The story is that the "weird" suspension causes very rapid wear. I assume it also causes the heel/toe wear and resultant noise that us sport package owners are familiar with when tires do not have connected edge blocks in the tread.

However, the guy also told me that rapid tire wear to him meant that BMW owners only got something like 30,000km on a set. He was shocked when stating this. That's 5+ winters for me, and I'd be perfectly happy with that. The thing would be if they were horribly noisy after the first couple of months because of heel/toe wear on the fronts.

Anyways, back to oil...

 

[shortyb]

Quote:

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I know this isn't a tire thread, but...

I would also have recommended Nokian, but I've been told by a local Nokian dealer that they specifically DO NOT recommend their tires (at least the WRs) for BMWs.

The story is that the "weird" suspension causes very rapid wear. I assume it also causes the heel/toe wear and resultant noise that us sport package owners are familiar with when tires do not have connected edge blocks in the tread.

However, the guy also told me that rapid tire wear to him meant that BMW owners only got something like 30,000km on a set. He was shocked when stating this. That's 5+ winters for me, and I'd be perfectly happy with that. The thing would be if they were horribly noisy after the first couple of months because of heel/toe wear on the fronts.

Anyways, back to oil...

---

Again, sorry to stray

.

Had Nokian Hakkapeliitta IIs on the 330 (with sport package) for three seasons. Not much snow to speak of so they spent most of their time on dry, albeit cold, pavement. Very low wear and no excessive noise other than a soft rumble, typical of snow tires. No cupping issues despite the soft compound either. Don't know about WRs, but the tread pattern seems similar to my Hakka IIs and they are available in the speed ratings suitable for winter tires on the Bimmers. Don't understand why that guy wouldn't recommend them, the website says they are very good for the changing winter conditions of Central Europe (where Bimmers, MBs, Audis, VWs etc. roam). Seems kind of odd to manufacture a tire that would not be recommended for the "home" market of these cars

.

 

[Tim]

Great guys, thanks for all the thoughts (tire talk, too!).

Looking at the D5293 for 0W-30 Castrol (6200 at -35) I don't think the Schaeffers at 4311 @ -30 is giving anything up.

I believe we might go ahead and run the Schaeffer's this winter.

I doubt he'll want to do an analysis, but I will offer up a kit anyway.

Tim

 

[JAG]

Quote:

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Looking at the D5293 for 0W-30 Castrol (6200 at -35) I don't think the Schaeffers at 4311 @ -30 is giving anything up.

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Castrol doesn't provide actual data for that. The 6200 is just the limit of what's allowed for an oil to be labeled a "0W-X".

 

[Craig in Canada]

Quote:

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Don't understand why that guy wouldn't recommend them, the website says they are very good for the changing winter conditions of Central Europe (where Bimmers, MBs, Audis, VWs etc. roam).

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Augh!

Thanks for your reply with experiences. To be clear: the dealer LOVES Nokians but said that Nokian themselves pulled the recommendation for BMW... Go figure... Of course "BMW" is a heck of a generalization.

I've sometimes considered getting studded Hakka 2's next time. If you're going to have snows, you might as well be able to drive up walls

A friend with an E46 323i got Hakka 2's but didn't install the studs. They really howl uncomfortably on his setup. I (unfortunately) have years of tread life left on my Dunlop M3s so I might not be making this decision soon.

Cheers