I decided to order some bore cleaner and gun oil and gun grease from Wilson Combat. They claim that their oil and grease beat RemOil, WD-40, Outers gun oil, and Breakfree in testing. I will see how their bore cleaner and oil and grease work on my Glock Model 22.
Going to try Wilson Combat lubricants
- Thread starter Mystic
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Good luck with your investigation as it's always fun to do comparative testing.
Let me also suggest to check out the product reviews at: www.perfectunion.com as they cover some of the more effective commercial recipes currently available including CLP's.
Let me also suggest to check out the product reviews at: www.perfectunion.com as they cover some of the more effective commercial recipes currently available including CLP's.
Wilson lube products are made by a company called Protec. You can Google them. They are Chlorinated Paraffin based.
That is disappointing. Well, after I use the stuff up I will either go back to Hoppes gun oil or maybe try Tufoil for guns. I don't believe in Tufoil for engines but Bill Wilson did mention (but did not test) Tufoil for guns. He said that it was the best PTFE product for guns that he had found. There is also TW25B gun oil and TW25B gun grease, both available to me locally. How do these products compare with other products?
I should note that Protec has been around for ~30 years so I believe them to be one of the better CP companies out there, but I have not used their products personally.
As for Tufoil for guns, the MSDS looks VERY similar (down to the specific gravity) to their LUBIT 8 MSDS which does contain chlorinated paraffin.
Milcomm TW25B is generally considered a very good gun grease, though it is way expensive. It is a semi-syn ester based grease with PTFE as the thickener. I have been told by someone that has talked to the formulator that most of their products use the same additive package, but are thinned out to make oils. There is even instructions on their site to thin down the grease with iso alcohol. The MSDS' are on their site and are pretty good.
As for Tufoil for guns, the MSDS looks VERY similar (down to the specific gravity) to their LUBIT 8 MSDS which does contain chlorinated paraffin.
Milcomm TW25B is generally considered a very good gun grease, though it is way expensive. It is a semi-syn ester based grease with PTFE as the thickener. I have been told by someone that has talked to the formulator that most of their products use the same additive package, but are thinned out to make oils. There is even instructions on their site to thin down the grease with iso alcohol. The MSDS' are on their site and are pretty good.
It seems like I have searched forever for the best gun oil. I have never really found a gun oil that I 100% liked. MPro7 gun oil (I think Hoppes Elite is the same product) did work well with my SIG. I might try TW25B gun oil and grease on my Glock. The Hoppes gun oil works okay but I would like to find something better and preferably safe to use. Actually on the bottle it says that TW25B is safe to use.
For gun cleaners I have searched forever also. Hoppes No. 9 is pretty decent for handguns and Hoppes Copper Solvent works well on rifles that have copper buildup in the barrels. Even KleenBore CLP will do a fairly decent job of cleaning a gun. The best cleaners I have ever found for guns are MPro7 cleaner (Hoppes Elite cleaner is probably the same) which is expensive but works very well for cleaning gun barrels. Blue Wonder also works well on gun barrels. Those are the best products for gun care that I have ever found.
I dislike BreakFree. The only time I ever had problems with a handgun was after I used BreakFree.
For gun cleaners I have searched forever also. Hoppes No. 9 is pretty decent for handguns and Hoppes Copper Solvent works well on rifles that have copper buildup in the barrels. Even KleenBore CLP will do a fairly decent job of cleaning a gun. The best cleaners I have ever found for guns are MPro7 cleaner (Hoppes Elite cleaner is probably the same) which is expensive but works very well for cleaning gun barrels. Blue Wonder also works well on gun barrels. Those are the best products for gun care that I have ever found.
I dislike BreakFree. The only time I ever had problems with a handgun was after I used BreakFree.
Actually for many semi-autos I think I would recommend something like wheel bearing grease to lubricate the gun. For some semi-autos like the Glock it might be better to stick to a good gun oil.
I know a range instructor who uses wheel bearing grease on his SIG and the gun looks nearly new. I know for a fact he has fired thousands of rounds in that gun. This same range instructor uses carb cleaner to clean his gun. I would not recommend doing that. Card cleaner is nasty stuff. Carb cleaner will get a gun clean if it is really nasty but who's fault is that? I go by what the old-timers said-'never leave a dirty gun to lay overnight.'
I don't know if grease is a good idea for a polymer gun like a Glock. Glock recommends very little lubrication.
For cleaning a gun I have never found anything better than MPro7 gun cleaner (Hoppes Elite gun cleaner) and Blue Wonder. The only problem with MPro7 (Hoppes Elite) is cost. But if you ever try MPro7 gun cleaner I think you will be impressed. If you can find MPro7 in the gel it lasts longer. I think Hoppes No. 9 does good enough so I have a tendancy to just going back to Hoppes No. 9. I am making my Blue Wonder last as long as possible-I use it once a year to clean the gun barrels.
I am less impressed with gun oils. There are simply none that I have found that are all that great. MPro7 gun oil (Hoppes Elite gun oil) is pretty good. Hoppes gun oil will get the job done but it is certainly not sensational. I guess I will give TW25B a try on my Glock. I would like something better than the Hoppes gun oil but safe to use and available locally.
There is surprisingly little in the way of gun cleaners and gun oils available in my local area, and I live in the western USA. About all there is available in my local area is Hoppes, BreakFree, TW25B, and some cleaners like Shooter's Choice.
I know a range instructor who uses wheel bearing grease on his SIG and the gun looks nearly new. I know for a fact he has fired thousands of rounds in that gun. This same range instructor uses carb cleaner to clean his gun. I would not recommend doing that. Card cleaner is nasty stuff. Carb cleaner will get a gun clean if it is really nasty but who's fault is that? I go by what the old-timers said-'never leave a dirty gun to lay overnight.'
I don't know if grease is a good idea for a polymer gun like a Glock. Glock recommends very little lubrication.
For cleaning a gun I have never found anything better than MPro7 gun cleaner (Hoppes Elite gun cleaner) and Blue Wonder. The only problem with MPro7 (Hoppes Elite) is cost. But if you ever try MPro7 gun cleaner I think you will be impressed. If you can find MPro7 in the gel it lasts longer. I think Hoppes No. 9 does good enough so I have a tendancy to just going back to Hoppes No. 9. I am making my Blue Wonder last as long as possible-I use it once a year to clean the gun barrels.
I am less impressed with gun oils. There are simply none that I have found that are all that great. MPro7 gun oil (Hoppes Elite gun oil) is pretty good. Hoppes gun oil will get the job done but it is certainly not sensational. I guess I will give TW25B a try on my Glock. I would like something better than the Hoppes gun oil but safe to use and available locally.
There is surprisingly little in the way of gun cleaners and gun oils available in my local area, and I live in the western USA. About all there is available in my local area is Hoppes, BreakFree, TW25B, and some cleaners like Shooter's Choice.
If you like Mpro7, try out the MC-25 cleaner from Milcomm, even better. Water based as well.
I generally don't like grease for self loading firearms because they depend on momentum to operate. Grease = high viscosity = high drag = soak up momentum. Oils inherently have less drag. The severity of course depends on temperature and how thick the grease is.
Grease will also hold onto debris better than oil will and can be turned into a lapping compound. If grease is used, it should be very light, IMHO. I would recommend Jardine's Extreme Grease for those that must us a grease. The formulator knows what he is doing.
Weapon Shield is the best oil that I have ever used by far. It sticks like crazy, is AW and EP fortified, and cleans as well as most dedicated cleaners WITHOUT SOLVENTS (0% volatiles). One rust test on Sig forum showed it to have very good anti-corrosion properties as well. It's EP is a syn/chlor additive though, so you probably will not like it.
I generally don't like grease for self loading firearms because they depend on momentum to operate. Grease = high viscosity = high drag = soak up momentum. Oils inherently have less drag. The severity of course depends on temperature and how thick the grease is.
Grease will also hold onto debris better than oil will and can be turned into a lapping compound. If grease is used, it should be very light, IMHO. I would recommend Jardine's Extreme Grease for those that must us a grease. The formulator knows what he is doing.
Weapon Shield is the best oil that I have ever used by far. It sticks like crazy, is AW and EP fortified, and cleans as well as most dedicated cleaners WITHOUT SOLVENTS (0% volatiles). One rust test on Sig forum showed it to have very good anti-corrosion properties as well. It's EP is a syn/chlor additive though, so you probably will not like it.
The Wilson Combat products arrived. I was kind of angry because some of the bore cleaner had spilled inside the container and either it was not packed correctly or else it was damaged in shipment. The bore cleaner has a strong smell. The grease and oil will probably last just for a few cleanings. I am going to try the grease on my car and see how it works.
So far I have not had a chance to shoot my gun and use the products. My first impression of the bore cleaner is that I would rather smell Hoppes bore cleaner. Especially since the bore cleaner got spilled in the container apparently during shipment.
My Wilson video showing how to maintain the Glock arrived and it is interesting.
So far I have not had a chance to shoot my gun and use the products. My first impression of the bore cleaner is that I would rather smell Hoppes bore cleaner. Especially since the bore cleaner got spilled in the container apparently during shipment.
My Wilson video showing how to maintain the Glock arrived and it is interesting.
I meant to say on my gun. I don't know if the stuff was not packed right or it was damaged in shipment-I would have to say not packed right because the plastic container it all was in seemed to be okay. The smell of the bore cleaner gave me a headache but than again it was spilled. When I clean my gun I will see what it is like outside.
If I have some smelly bore cleaner I prefer to clean my gun outside. I do that even with Hoppes bore cleaner that actually smells kind of nice. I prefer bore cleaner that does not have a strong smell so I can clean my gun inside during cold weather, bad weather, and if I have to clean my gun after it gets dark.
First impression is I don't like the bore cleaner. But I have not used it to clean a gun yet. But smelling it spilled all over the container was not pleasant. I will see how the grease and the oil perform on my gun.
If I have some smelly bore cleaner I prefer to clean my gun outside. I do that even with Hoppes bore cleaner that actually smells kind of nice. I prefer bore cleaner that does not have a strong smell so I can clean my gun inside during cold weather, bad weather, and if I have to clean my gun after it gets dark.
First impression is I don't like the bore cleaner. But I have not used it to clean a gun yet. But smelling it spilled all over the container was not pleasant. I will see how the grease and the oil perform on my gun.
I have some of the TW-25B that I bought a while back, but I have not used it much. It does generally have a good reputation, but it is known to separate out over time. It does have some AW chemistry in it which is a plus. I would use the Jardine's over the Milcomm, though.
Let us know how it goes with the Wilson/Protec stuff.
Let us know how it goes with the Wilson/Protec stuff.
I probably will not go shooting for a week or two so it will probably be a little bit before I can test the Wilson Combat stuff. I am not trying to waste money but I decided to try a few things I have not tried before and see if at last I can find the magic gun oil or gun grease that can get the job done.
I also ordered some MC-25 gun cleaner from Milcomm. If it cleans well and I can use it inside I will probably go with it as a cleaner. I don't like smelly bore cleaners, especially bore cleaners that give me a headache. I don't mind the smell of Hoppes No. 9 but I use it outside also. If I have to clean a gun inside I prefer to use Hoppes Elite gun cleaner (MPro7 gun cleaner). I assume the Hoppes Elite and the MPro7 are the same. I will not use something like carb cleaner on a gun unless the gun is incredibly dirty and I clean my guns every time after I shoot so that is not a problem. Better for the gun to wear out than to hurt your head.
I did order some of that Jardine Custom gun grease. It is really not expensive. $6.95 including shipping. I figure it is worth testing.
I also ordered some Gunbutter gun oil. A lot of people brag about it so I will give it a try.
My guess is that the MC-25 cleaner will be at least as good as the Hoppes Elite gun cleaner. My current practice is to use Hoppes No. 9 bore cleaner outside if I am able to clean outside (weather, temperature, wind, darkness). I don't mind the smell outside but I don't like to smell up my house even with Hoppes No. 9. It smells kind of nice outside. I use Hoppes Elite gun cleaner inside if I have to clean inside. Too expensive to use all the time but good for indoor cleaning. I figure the MC-25 will be similiar. Blue Wonder for bore cleaning once a year outside. So that pretty much covers the cleaning chemicals. Heck, I heard of guys cleaning guns with Simple Green.
The bigger problem is trying to find some gun oil or gun grease that really gets the job done. I have tried all kinds of gun oils (and some greases) and if this stuff I am trying now does not live up to expectations I will just go back to using Hoppes gun oil. What the heck, I can find a Glock gunsmith and have the gun rebuilt every one or two years. If that is what it takes that is okay with me.
I am amazed that so little research has been done on gun lubrication considering how important guns are. Somebody could probably make a fortune if they developed a truly great gun oil or gun grease that did the job, was safe to use, and not too expensive.
I also ordered some MC-25 gun cleaner from Milcomm. If it cleans well and I can use it inside I will probably go with it as a cleaner. I don't like smelly bore cleaners, especially bore cleaners that give me a headache. I don't mind the smell of Hoppes No. 9 but I use it outside also. If I have to clean a gun inside I prefer to use Hoppes Elite gun cleaner (MPro7 gun cleaner). I assume the Hoppes Elite and the MPro7 are the same. I will not use something like carb cleaner on a gun unless the gun is incredibly dirty and I clean my guns every time after I shoot so that is not a problem. Better for the gun to wear out than to hurt your head.
I did order some of that Jardine Custom gun grease. It is really not expensive. $6.95 including shipping. I figure it is worth testing.
I also ordered some Gunbutter gun oil. A lot of people brag about it so I will give it a try.
My guess is that the MC-25 cleaner will be at least as good as the Hoppes Elite gun cleaner. My current practice is to use Hoppes No. 9 bore cleaner outside if I am able to clean outside (weather, temperature, wind, darkness). I don't mind the smell outside but I don't like to smell up my house even with Hoppes No. 9. It smells kind of nice outside. I use Hoppes Elite gun cleaner inside if I have to clean inside. Too expensive to use all the time but good for indoor cleaning. I figure the MC-25 will be similiar. Blue Wonder for bore cleaning once a year outside. So that pretty much covers the cleaning chemicals. Heck, I heard of guys cleaning guns with Simple Green.
The bigger problem is trying to find some gun oil or gun grease that really gets the job done. I have tried all kinds of gun oils (and some greases) and if this stuff I am trying now does not live up to expectations I will just go back to using Hoppes gun oil. What the heck, I can find a Glock gunsmith and have the gun rebuilt every one or two years. If that is what it takes that is okay with me.
I am amazed that so little research has been done on gun lubrication considering how important guns are. Somebody could probably make a fortune if they developed a truly great gun oil or gun grease that did the job, was safe to use, and not too expensive.
The Jardine's and Weapon Shield products were developed and formulated by shooters, which is one reason I like them and I think work so well.
MC-25 is better than Hoppes elite and Mpro-7 IMHO. I have used Simple Green to clean guns before, just have to be real careful and the water out and re-lube quickly. It has no anti-corrosion adds. It will only corrode metal if exposed to air though as I have left steel parts in SG (totally submerged) for weeks with no problems.
I have thought about Gun butter but $15 for 2/3 oz. is just nuts.
MC-25 is better than Hoppes elite and Mpro-7 IMHO. I have used Simple Green to clean guns before, just have to be real careful and the water out and re-lube quickly. It has no anti-corrosion adds. It will only corrode metal if exposed to air though as I have left steel parts in SG (totally submerged) for weeks with no problems.
I have thought about Gun butter but $15 for 2/3 oz. is just nuts.
Yeah, the Gunbutter is too expensive. I figured I would give it a try however.
You have tried MC-25 and I have not, so I will take your word for it that the MC-25 bore cleaner is good. I can get TW25B gun oil in my area and I used to be able to get TW25B gun grease, but I have never even seen MC-25 sold here. If it gets the job done well and I can clean my gun inside then it is goodbye Hoppes No. 9 and Hoppes Elite gun cleaner.
The Jardine Custom gun grease is well worth trying. It is not even that expensive. If it works well on my gun then I will use it from now on. I talked to the guy who makes it on the telephone and he sounds like a really cool guy. I shoot quite a few rounds per year and I need something to slow down wear on the gun. Somebody who shoots their gun once every 5 years can get by with any brand of gun oil. I have a need to slow down gun wear-if possible I could save money on having to have a gun rebuilt. I have high hopes for the Jardine Custom gun grease. The Gunbutter is really too expensive even if it works.
I think a lot of people do not realize how trashy the average gun oil is. A lot of people shoot their rifles only occasionally (before and during hunting season),and shoot their shotguns only occasionally, and maybe shoot their handguns only a few times a year.
Put 5000 rounds through a gun over 5 years and see what you think.
I do think there is a need for some kind of quality lightweight gun grease for guns (except in cold weather when you can use a synthetic oil). A grease will stay put. I told you about the range instructor who had shot probably 5000-7000 rounds through his SIG. The gun still looked in pretty good shape. He was using wheel bearing grease. I did not like his idea of using carb cleaner to clean the gun however. And he only cleaned his gun every 500 rounds or so. I clean my gun every time after I shoot it.
For that matter Wilson of Wilson Combat says that you can shoot 500 rounds before cleaning a gun as long as you are using clean burning primers and ammo and have good lubrication products. I was taught differently. I was taught clean the gun every time after shooting it.
I have a feeling that the MC-25 cleaner will work well. If not my gun cleaning needs are covered pretty well with the Hoppes No. 9 and the Hoppes Elite.
I hope the Jardine Custom gun grease will do the job. It is even not that expensive.
All of my gun cleaning and gun lubrication problems could be taken care of.
You have tried MC-25 and I have not, so I will take your word for it that the MC-25 bore cleaner is good. I can get TW25B gun oil in my area and I used to be able to get TW25B gun grease, but I have never even seen MC-25 sold here. If it gets the job done well and I can clean my gun inside then it is goodbye Hoppes No. 9 and Hoppes Elite gun cleaner.
The Jardine Custom gun grease is well worth trying. It is not even that expensive. If it works well on my gun then I will use it from now on. I talked to the guy who makes it on the telephone and he sounds like a really cool guy. I shoot quite a few rounds per year and I need something to slow down wear on the gun. Somebody who shoots their gun once every 5 years can get by with any brand of gun oil. I have a need to slow down gun wear-if possible I could save money on having to have a gun rebuilt. I have high hopes for the Jardine Custom gun grease. The Gunbutter is really too expensive even if it works.
I think a lot of people do not realize how trashy the average gun oil is. A lot of people shoot their rifles only occasionally (before and during hunting season),and shoot their shotguns only occasionally, and maybe shoot their handguns only a few times a year.
Put 5000 rounds through a gun over 5 years and see what you think.
I do think there is a need for some kind of quality lightweight gun grease for guns (except in cold weather when you can use a synthetic oil). A grease will stay put. I told you about the range instructor who had shot probably 5000-7000 rounds through his SIG. The gun still looked in pretty good shape. He was using wheel bearing grease. I did not like his idea of using carb cleaner to clean the gun however. And he only cleaned his gun every 500 rounds or so. I clean my gun every time after I shoot it.
For that matter Wilson of Wilson Combat says that you can shoot 500 rounds before cleaning a gun as long as you are using clean burning primers and ammo and have good lubrication products. I was taught differently. I was taught clean the gun every time after shooting it.
I have a feeling that the MC-25 cleaner will work well. If not my gun cleaning needs are covered pretty well with the Hoppes No. 9 and the Hoppes Elite.
I hope the Jardine Custom gun grease will do the job. It is even not that expensive.
All of my gun cleaning and gun lubrication problems could be taken care of.
""I think a lot of people do not realize how trashy the average gun oil is.""
Most I have seen are repacked turbine or hydro oil some with a tackifier IMHO not may were/are made from the ground up for gun use.
bruce
Most I have seen are repacked turbine or hydro oil some with a tackifier IMHO not may were/are made from the ground up for gun use.
bruce
Also gun oils are like any other oil/lube in that there is no perfect product it depends on your individual issues.
some lube well as in EP load carrying, some are good rust inhibitore some good with water etc but most are normally a compromise
bruce
some lube well as in EP load carrying, some are good rust inhibitore some good with water etc but most are normally a compromise
bruce
yes, I have never seen a gun oil that was truly 100% satisfactory. Like you say, some are better at some things than others. For example, I have heard that Hoppes regular gun oil actually is good at preventing rust. So maybe it would be okay in guns that are put in storage for a while. Along with a good rust preventive for the outside of the gun.
It also seems to me that if there was any real research into decent gun oils it would be unnecessary to use unsafe chemicals in gun oils. Motor oil for cars is reasonably safe. You certainly don't want to drink motor oil but it is fairly safe-until it has been in use in an engine. Auto-RX cleans an engine well and it is safe. Why can't they develop safe gun oils that have extreme pressure and anti-wear additives?
If the products I discuss above don't work out I will just use Hoppes gun oil or maybe better TW25B grease and gun oil. At least the Milcomm products are fairly safe.
When you stop to think about it there is really no excuse for smelly bore cleaners. Many people clean their guns indoors, especially if the weather is bad. Is it so hard to develop bore cleaners that don't smell like a chemical factory?
I am using a Glock now but if I was still using a SIG I think I would consider cleaning the bore with Simple Green and using wheel bearing grease to lube the gun. And tell all of the manufacturers of gun bore cleaners and gun oils and gun greases to keep their stuff.
It also seems to me that if there was any real research into decent gun oils it would be unnecessary to use unsafe chemicals in gun oils. Motor oil for cars is reasonably safe. You certainly don't want to drink motor oil but it is fairly safe-until it has been in use in an engine. Auto-RX cleans an engine well and it is safe. Why can't they develop safe gun oils that have extreme pressure and anti-wear additives?
If the products I discuss above don't work out I will just use Hoppes gun oil or maybe better TW25B grease and gun oil. At least the Milcomm products are fairly safe.
When you stop to think about it there is really no excuse for smelly bore cleaners. Many people clean their guns indoors, especially if the weather is bad. Is it so hard to develop bore cleaners that don't smell like a chemical factory?
I am using a Glock now but if I was still using a SIG I think I would consider cleaning the bore with Simple Green and using wheel bearing grease to lube the gun. And tell all of the manufacturers of gun bore cleaners and gun oils and gun greases to keep their stuff.
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