plug vs patch for flat

[CapriRacer]

I haven't stepped into this argument until now, because I wanted to see where it wound up.

I would suggest that there is a reason why plugs are referred to in official tire publications as "Temporary Repairs".

As has been stated, plugs have an annoying propensity to leak - not 100%, but enough to have a reputation. Most of the time you can detect the leak right after the plug is installed, but sometimes the leak waits until later. In this case, the net effect is like a flat tire - which can occur at the most inconvenient of times. The obvious answer is to use a plug to get the vehicle mobile and when it is convenient, get the tire properly repaired. This means hours and days, not weeks and months.

A proper repair consists of a plug / patch combination - which can be a single unit sometimes called a "patch with a stem" or "mushroom patch". The "patch" provides the air seal - and some structure to the injured area. The "plug" fills the void preventing damaging stuff to enter the injured area. This last part is especially important for steel belted tires as steel will rust much more quickly in the presence of water and oxygen.

Also, the only area of the tire that can be repaired is the tread area - EXCLUDING the outermost rib. This exclusion is to keep the repair out of the belt edges - the most highly stressed area of the tire. Tread separations generally start at the belt edges and damage in this area can initiate the process.

I hope this has been helpful.

 

[GMGuy]

It comes down to what your willing to try. For me, I'd rather do it myself. And have done numerous plug repairs that have held for the service life of the tire. I only use plugs + adhesive. I can do plugs in the driveway, patches I can't.

I have also had patches done (work vehicles), and have always insisted on plug-patches. A patch alone as far as I am concerned is inadequate since it does nothing to seal the puncture wound, allowing moisture through the original hole. I may be wrong on this, but I have never witnessed a patch installed where the wound was dressed. The puncture item removed, the tire dismounted, wound area dressed with a tire grinder and the patch applied, leaving the entry point untouched. I'd rather take my chances with a glued in plug. =-)

Incidently, my last plug patch in my work truck was at the very edge of the thread where it meets the sidewall. The guy suggested a new tire due to location, I opted for a plug patch. It held for the remaining 18 months the tire was in service. The invoice clearly stated 'no warranty' etc. I was fine with that. If it leaked, then I'll replace.

Alex.

 

[CapriRacer]

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...... The invoice clearly stated 'no warranty' etc. I was fine with that. If it leaked, then I'll replace. ......

Alex.

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Just so that everyone understands:

If the tire had separated and you ended up in a hospital, would you also be fine with that as well?

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to point out there may be consequences that are pretty severe.

 

[alreadygone]

Capri,

No need to confuse them with the facts,,,,,their mind's already made up!

Bob

 

[gregmp]

Granted that tires will loss their speed rating once any type of repair is done to it. When most tires have a belt that is seperating, compromising the integrity of the tire, a vibration or wobble will be evident well before the tire fails.

If you were to replace a tire every time a puncture happens, it would be very costly.

Here are the facts...Experimentation leads to knowledge.
Try it for yourself before you make judgement on what has worked for others.

 

[GMGuy]

Having had tires come apart before, I'm not worried about it (no plugs or patches in those!). Believe it or not, I look at my tires regularily, and actually investigate if I feel something amiss (thanks to those early failures). So had the tire start to come apart, I would have likely caught it. Had it had instant failure, well, I'd deal with it like before.

Not everything results in a fireball of destruction becuase it doesn't follow the "accepted" procedure.

Alex.

 

[gedcruise]

I've gone both ways, and I can't really say one is better than the other.
I last plugged one of my own tires because the tire store I had intended to take it to was closed for the weekend, and I didn't feel like driving all over town.
OTOH, I've had good results with pro repairs of fairly large punctures.
Finally, once you've driven for awhile, you will have experienced at least one tire failure. Not as dramatic or as hard to control as you might think. Don't think of the Explorers which careend out of control. Think, instead, of those where the driver kept his head, that were then limped to the shoulder.
Drive enough, and I promise you that you will eventually have a tire fail.

 

[mrsilv04]

I've used the sticky strings to repair flats on both my Goldwing and on my Silverado. Never a problem with either one. I repaired a puncture on the Silverado almost a year ago, and it is still there, and the tire hasn't lost any more pressure than any of the others since the repair. I occasionally pull an 8000# trailer, and that repair has held up to that additional abuse as well. Because of that, I never saw a need in having that tire repaired "professionally".

I have a brand new set of Michelin LTX's on order, and will repair them this same way as well, if and when the time comes.

Two keys that I am a firm believer in, when using the sticky strings:

1) Use rubber cement along with the string plug. Smear rubber cement all over the plug, and use the rasp to force and spread some cement in on the inner walls of the puncture. Then set the plug.

2) Let the repair sit about 15 minutes before reinflating the tire, to allow the rubber cement to set and bond.

I have no problems with repairing a tire this way, either on the bike or on the truck.

(However, I will replace a motorcycle tire if the puncture was caused by glass.)

 

[RFIRE]

I once took my tire into Pep Boys to have a leak patched. The repair counter guy started to fight with me and threw out insults after I rejected his claim that a plug was the best way to repair the tire and that I did not know what I was talking about when I requested a patch instead. I pulled back the work order and never returned. Pep Boys, baaaah.

Richard

 

[Doc8404]

patch is best
plug is easiest
nuf said

 

[XS650]

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I once took my tire into Pep Boys to have a leak patched. The repair counter guy started to fight with me and threw out insults after I rejected his claim that a plug was the best way to repair the tire and that I did not know what I was talking about when I requested a patch instead. I pulled back the work order and never returned. Pep Boys, baaaah.

Richard

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Don't argue with the wanker. Thank him for his advice, then tell him how you want it done.

If he keeps running off at the mouth, repeat what you said. Sooner or later he will get the idea. Once you start justifying your position, you have admitted that he has an argument worth responding to.

It is less of an ego problem for him if you ignore his advice than if you prove him wrong, or spend some time trying to and show him he might not know everything.

 

[alreadygone]

Quote:

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Quote:

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I once took my tire into Pep Boys to have a leak patched. The repair counter guy started to fight with me and threw out insults after I rejected his claim that a plug was the best way to repair the tire and that I did not know what I was talking about when I requested a patch instead. I pulled back the work order and never returned. Pep Boys, baaaah.

Richard

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Don't argue with the wanker. Thank him for his advice, then tell him how you want it done.

If he keeps running off at the mouth, repeat what you said. Sooner or later he will get the idea. Once you start justifying your position, you have admitted that he has an argument worth responding to.

It is less of an ego problem for him if you ignore his advice than if you prove him wrong, or spend some time trying to and show him he might not know everything.

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UNLESS,,,, you're coming into my shop!!! Other than Cap Racer, pretty certain thirty years experience, and reading every specialty magazine I lay my hands on makes me better educated about tires than any yayhoo here!

Bob

 

[c502cid]

Bob, you being a shop owner, and the liability that goes along with it, I can understand your position. If I had access to a tire machine at home, I'd patch a tire every time, it is the best way to go. However, I grew up in the gas station business. Done a bazillion plugs in my lifetime. Used to love when the plug sales guy would come in, drill a hole in his sidewall (and that was plug hole number 40), plug it and drive away. Depending on the size of the puncture, and where the puncture is (Gotta use your noggin here!) a plug in the center of ther tread, installed correctly, is perfectly acceptable. Too many shops are greedy with their patch repairs and I'm not going to spend $20 to fix a screw hole in the center of the tread when I can do it at home. I know I can do it right. While I believe YOU can do a patch job right Bob, and I agree it isn't rocket science, but I'll bet you don't have a tech doing your patches, you have the new kid who has to learn somewhere doing it. I sure wont argue against a patch job but I'm not going to say that it is the only way to go either. Some of us are capable of making that decision!

 

[mechtech2]

I use plugs in the shop exclusively.
We first use a small drill to orient the steel wires, if they are broken or impeding the plug.

 

[Fester]

Ive had so many flats, I'm always on the road, I drive a Chevy express loaded down, I get around two to three flats per year, Its not worth my time to do the repair twice, so I always insist on the patch, and have never had a problem, not so with plugs.

 

[y_p_w]

I thought the RMA recommendation is to:

1) Use something that both seals the hole (keeping out the elements from rusting the belt) and plug the inside surface (to prevent air leakage). That could be a plug/patch combo (mushroom patch) or separate plug and patch.

2) Use a proper cement to seal against air leakage like the original liner.

3) Ream out the hole with a carbide cutter bit to remove any jagged belt fragments and to provide a perfect fit for the plug. Goodyear has some of these tools, as does Rema.

http://www.chemco.ca/Products/Tire_Repair/Goodyear/gdy_carbide_cut.htm
http://www.rematiptop.com/Passenger%20an...r%20Catalog.htm

I haven't actually found any place that actually does that, but I'd still prefer a patch alone over a plug alone. I've read the Big O free road hazard warranty on their house-brand tires, and they guarantee a full RMA guideline repair.

I know most manufacturers won't guarantee a repaired tire is still speed rated, but I understand a few manufacturers do so with a proper plug/patch repair below a certain hole size.

I guess the most important reason to dismount the tire is to see where the hole ended up, especially if it's near the sidewall. Like it was said earlier, one could easily just ram that plug tool in there and create a hole that wasn't there before, yet not entirely repair the actual damage.

 

[bdcardinal]

y_p_w sears does that method. they force it down their tech's throats in training. technically thats the only legal way for a shop to do it.

 

[y_p_w]

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y_p_w sears does that method. they force it down their tech's throats in training. technically thats the only legal way for a shop to do it.

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I guess, although I haven't ended up taking my flat tire to a place willing to do the full repair. I had one person explain that they weren't going to charge for the time it took for a tech to ream out the hole.

I also found one more detail. Apparently the plug-patch combo is good if the hole angle is less than 25 degrees. Otherwise, they recommend separate plug and patch. if it extends beyond a certain angle, I think they probably cut off the plug flat with the inside and then place the patch.

The least repairable tire I ever had was one that got shredded at about 55 MPH past a construction area on the freeway. I heard a whump, whump - and it was my tire carcass slapping against the wheel well. The steel wheel was still fine. Still - that Dunlop D60 M2 was completely toast.

 

[onion]

I've used the cheap sticky-thread Walmart plugs more times than I could count on my own vehicles. Never had a problem with them. Cheap & simple: Like me.