Oil's benefits still exist after being wiped away?

[BrentK]

Since certain gun- and automotive-oil makers say that their oil becomes attached to the metal surface, I wonder if an oil's protective properties still exist after being wiped away with a clean cloth? I.E., does a visible sheen of oil need to exist?

One particular oil I have in mind is Redline, which I recently chose after doing a salt-spray test on a few nails to see which synthetic automotive oil (Redline, Mobil-1 or Amsoil) provides the best protection from rust.

After I clean my gun and apply oil, I tend to wipe away as much visible oil as I can to prevent particles (dirt, metal shavings, etc.) from collecting and causing the gun to malfunction. I felt comfortable doing this with the gun oil I was using, but only because the manufacturer said that this was OK. I assume that it's also OK to do this with Redline, but thought I'd ask the experts.

 

[BIGJ552000]

How did the nail test work out, if you do not mind me asking?

 

[BrentK]

quote:

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Originally posted by BIGJ552000:
How did the nail test work out, if you do not mind me asking?

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For anyone who's against non-standardized testing, please ignore! Or at least refrain from lecturing about publishing results from a non-standard test -- remember, I was asked for these results.

Here are all the products that I tested, in order of most-to-least resistant to rust (as judged by observation only).

Redline Heavy Shockproof Gear Oil (no rust in 3 hours)
Redline 20w50 oil (slight rust in 3 hours)
Mobil-1 0w20 oil (slightly more rust in 3 hours)
Mobil-1 75w90 Gear Oil (much rust starting in 30 min -- I was surprised!)
FP-10 (much rust starting in 30 min -- again I was surprised!)
Amsoil 10w40 (seemed to rust as soon as spray landed!)

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from using FP-10 by including it in my list. I was using FP-10 on my gun and then decided to switch, if only as a test, to a synthetic motor oil. Not because FP-10 wasn't 'working' for me...it's just that being a lube nut makes one do crazy things!

Although the Shockproof oil performed better than anything else I tested, I decided not to use it (straight) as my lube because of its terrible odor. But I did want to use it because (I assume) it contains EP properties that the motor oil (I assume) doesn't. (If anyone knows otherwise, I'd like to know.)

So I mixed the two Redlines together in a 3-to-1 ratio (3 parts motor oil, 1 part gear oil). This mixture also stinks, but not as bad as straight gear oil! And there's only a hint of that odor when I smell the gun, so I'm not concerned about anyone else noticing it (it's my CCW gun).

 

[Steve S]

Brent , in the Florida heat I can smell the gear oil . Buy a stainless piece.

Have you thought about ATF or Amsoil metal protector.

 

[BrentK]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve S:
Have you thought about ATF or Amsoil metal protector.

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I have some Mercon synthetic ATF, but I didn't even consider using it since it smells worse than the Redline gear oil. I wasn't aware of the Amsoil metal protector; I'll have to look it up.

 

[Mystic]

Militec-1 is supposed to leave a coating on a gun even after the liquid is wiped off. I have heard that some of the soldiers in Iraq use it instead of Breakfree.

Right now I am using TW25B grease which stays put on the gun and seems to work well. I have a coated SIG P226 and I don't know how well Militec-1 would work on a coated gun anyway. Plus the grease is available locally and is fairly low cost.

At times I sometimes think a guy would be just as well off cleaning the gun with good old Hoppes gun cleaner, and then using Hoppes gun oil on the gun. But I am going to try the gun greae for a while and see how it works. If the gun is easy enough to clean and I have no jams I may just stay with the grease (except for some parts like the trigger mechanism).

 

[BrentK]

Anyone?

Maybe I should ask this as a general lubrication question in another area...

 

[kenw]

"At times I sometimes think a guy would be just as well off cleaning the gun with good old Hoppes gun cleaner, and then using Hoppes gun oil on the gun. "

it's all my dad uses on the Springfields he restores.

 

[Mystic]

BrentK, I think I did reply to your question. The information I have about Militec-1 is that even after being wiped off it will still supposedly lubricate a weapon. The story was that soldiers in Iraq were lubricating their guns with it and then wiping the liquid off so that dust would not be attracted. And the guns were still supposed to be adequately lubricated by the coating that remained on the gun.

There are some people who rave about Militec-1. But then again there are people who rave about Breakfree also. I personally will not use Breakfree after it failed for me twice.

The grease I have been using without question stays put. And it is supposed to lubricate even in cold weather. I have a video made by a guy who is a noted competition shooter and gunsmith and in the video he uses grease (a grease that he himself sells) on a handgun to lubricate the gun. It is not the same grease that I am using. The guy in the video said that he uses grease except in very cold weather. I have heard stories that Special Forces units were using the very same grease that I have been using.

Sometimes however I just get tired of trying to find the perfect lubricate for my guns. I am like everybody else here at this site always trying to find the perfect lubricating products. The grease seems to work okay and it surely would be good for guns left in storage for a while (with a product like Gun Sheath used to coat the outside).

If I discover that the grease is not so great for a weapon I am shooting all the time then I may just go back to old Hoppes gun cleaner and gun oil. Probably just as well off lubricating the gun before every shooting session.

 

[BrentK]

Mystic, yes you did reply to my question, which I appreciated very much. But I thought that you were offering more of an alternative (with Militec-1) than an answer to the question. So I posted with "Anyone?" because my question, as it relates to engine oil, is still unanswered.

In fact it's products like Militec-1, and Eezox, that made me ask the question in the first place. I figured that since these products could be wiped "dry" and still lubricate, then why not Redline or other oils...synthetic or otherwise. But since I'm not a lube expert, I thought I'd do the safe thing and ask the experts on this forum.

 

[Mystic]

I don't recommend Eezox. I have tried it but it is expensive and I am quite sure that it is a clorinated product. Personally I have been very disappointed in a lot of these supposedly super lubes for guns.

I have tried to find common products that could replace these high priced special lubes.

For cleaning guns I have heard that Simple Green will work. I have not tried it yet. If it works I can get the stuff for a dollar a bottle at these dollar stores around here.

Lubriplate Lithium grease could probably replace high priced special gun grease.

I am still looking for the magic oil. I personally have never been impressed with gun oils. I kind of think the gunsmith and competition shooter in that video I own is right-use grease instead. The suggestion above about Amsoil metal protector might be a good idea-as long as it does not get into primers. If I can get hold of some of this Militec-1 I will give it a try. If it does not impress me then I think I will follow the advice of the gunsmith and use the gun grease.

 

[porterdog]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mystic:
If I can get hold of some of this Militec-1 I will give it a try.

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Search the web- I requested and rec'd last year a pair of generous samples of thier oil and grease. Been using it steady and still have lots left! I like the grease, and it really does seem to have an.... accumulating? effect. Used it on an old lever action that I got from my granddad and one of my friends (who shoots the weapon infrequently) noticed right off. "Feels smoother than it used to," he said.

Google 'militec sample' and it'll be the first hit.

$0.02,
Robert

 

[BrentK]

Eezox does contain chlorinated solvents...says so right on the bottle I have. I stopped using it because my wife complained about the smell, and because I couldn't think clearly for several hours after using it...of course, that could be just me!

But I did like Eezox, because it dried to the touch and still (apparently) provided lubrication. It definitely provided rust protection!

I've been going from one product to another since dropping Eezox; looking for that magic oil, like Mystic said. To me, this would be an oil that works like Eezox, but without Eezox's after effects.

That's why I'm so hung up on finding out if a lubrication layer (maybe a couple of molecules thick?) still exists after wiping engine oil off metal. I wish that I could perform a test for this myself!

 

[rugerman1]

I recommend searching the 24hourcampfire.com forum for good information on all things that pertain to shooting.Maybe we can combine the knowledge of both forums to come to a better understanding of what lube works best.

 

[Mystic]

BrentK, what you said about Eezox brings back memories. Now I remember exactly why I stopped using it-it was a clorinated product and the smell was sickening to me. It did seem to lube a gun good but for my own safety I think I would rather stick to Hoppes gun cleaner and Hoppes gun oil instead of that stuff.

rugerman1, thanks for the information on the web site. I had never heard of that. I will check it out.

Last information I have is that Militec-1 is a clorinated product also. If it is I will not use it. These clorinated products are supposed to maybe be a cancer risk and at least in automobile engines apparently eventually cause corrosion. I don't know if they would cause corrosion eventually in a gun-different environment. I guess I will stick to the gun grease and maybe use Simple Green to clean guns. Tell me what you think about using the Simnple Green to clean.

The gun grease would no doubt work good for stored weapons. I will see how I like using it on the gun I shoot a lot. If I don't like it on the gun I shoot a lot then I am about willing to say the heck with it and just use a decent gun oil and not one of these over-rated super products.

 

[BrentK]

Mystic, I don't have any personal experience with using SG to clean my gun, but I have tried their Grill Cleaner product -- it didn't make a dent in the built-up grease (and carbon?) in my grill! I seem to remember reading that SG (the regular cleaner, not the grill cleaner) can harm certain surfaces, maybe even skin -- but don't quote me.

Since SG didn't clean my grill, I pulled out a few other degreasers I'd collected, including a couple of gun-cleaners, and tested them on the grill. What worked best was Mpro-7 and Mirachem 500, two products that I'd been using/testing on my guns.

Of the two products, I've settled on using only Mirachem 500 on my guns because it's MUCH cheaper than Mpro-7, and it contains nothing harmful (per its MSDS).

In case anyone's interested, here's a link to the Mirachem web site: link

I use the trigger-spray bottle, which I order from here for $5.95 a quart.

 

[Mystic]

BrentK, I have tried MPro7. The MPro7 cleaner is supposed to be very safe-it was developed with safety in mind and to allow all grease and oil to be removed from fighter aircraft before the planes were painted. I can not detect any real smell with it. Without a doubt the cleaner does clean guns pretty good. The only problems I can see is that the spray cleaner does not last very long and is expensive (I prefer using the jell) and there is only one place in Colorado Springs, Colorado that I know of that carries the stuff. I prefer buying local stuff if I can instead of ordering on the internet unless I have to.

The MPro7 gun oil is a synthetic oil that I have to say is probably the most impressive gun oil I have ever tried. When I use it on slides it seems to make the gun work smoother.

I like MPro7 stuff but they are expensive and I would have to pick them up when I happened to be in CS for some reason. I don't know if you have tried the MPro7 jell but it lasts longer then the spray.

That other product you talked about I have not heard of until now. I have a concern that it is a water based product and you need to use water after you use it to clean.

 

[BrentK]

FP-10 update

Since FP-10 is supposed to provide excellent rust protection -- according to feedback from many people on various web sites -- and since it didn't do well in my nail test (see my second post in this thread) I decided to do another test.

But this time I used a newer bottle of FP-10 that's white and has the name FP-10 Elite on it. The bottle that I used in my previous test is about 2-years-old, is small and grey, and doesn't have Elite in its name.

So I prepped 6 nails, applying FP-10 to three, and Mobil 1 to three. I still had plenty of the saltwater solution that I used in the previous test, so I used it for this test. I checked the nails about 1-hour after spraying them, and didn't see any rust. This was late at night, so I went to bed and then checked the nails again the next morning -- the Mobil 1 nails had a little rust on them, but the FP-10 nails had NO rust!

So now I'm back to using FP-10 on my guns, and leaving the engine oils for my vehicles.

And as far as there still being a protective layer of oil after being "wiped off" the metal -- well, I guess that my nail tests have proven that this is true since I wiped each nail off before spraying with salt water. But I still don't know how much wear-protection, if any, this ultra-thin layer of oil provides, which was the point of my initial question that began this thread. I suppose that I'll never know, and will consider that question closed at this point.

 

[BrentK]

Mystic, I've never used water after using Mirachem 500; I only use a clean, dry cloth to wipe it off. As for it being water-based, this isn't a problem as long as the gun isn't put away wet and unprotected with oil.

Mirachem also makes a gun-specific cleaner that's based on the 500 product, but with some corrosion inhibitors in it. The product is called simply Gun Cleaner, but it used to be called Insight, which many people have had much success using. Since I'm anal about both cleaning and lubing my guns, I don't mind using a cleaning product without corrosion inhibitors.

I'm not convinced that Mpro-7 is as safe as the company claims, considering that its MSDS contains the following:
THE INGREDIENT DIETHYLENE
GLYCOL MONOBUTYL ETHER, 6%, CAS NO. 112-34-5; AND N-METHYLPYRROLIDONE (NMP), 6%,
CAS NO. 872-50-4; ARE CONTAINED IN THE FORMULATION AND ARE SUBJECT TO REPORTING
REQUIREMENTS UNDER SARA TITLE III SECTION 313 PART 372.

The MSDS goes on to say the following, though I still wouldn't take any chances:
THERE ARE SEVERAL STUDIES
AND DOCUMENTED CITES WHICH ESTABLISH THE SAFETY OF DIETHYLENE GLYCOL
MONOBUTYL ETHER. WINDFALLS DISTRIBUTING, INC. WILL FURNISH THESE UPON REQUEST.

I'm not trying to convince anyone one way or the other about Mpro-7; I just personally wouldn't use it when another product is available that works just as well for less money, and that is clear of any chemicals that need to be reported in its MSDS.