MINI Cooper S (supercharged 1.6) , Amsoil 0w30

[minimc]

Historical UOA. Note current trend/s after postive glycol reading. Unfortunately also suffered oil leak during most recent fill period - fill was topped with 3 quarts dissimilar oil (castrol syntech 5w30)- so not representative. Also of note, the 2 most recent UOA tests are from a common fill - the aforementioned "topped" Amsoil 0w30 with (castrol syntech 5w30)

While the numbers appear low, from what I've read here, the increases in Lead, Tin and Aluminium are troubling to me. What concerns (if any) would you folks have regarding wear metals, the glycol positive, and or other?

Code:

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Unit Age (Mi) 43183 41685 34797 25934 19760 8795 3107 500 23

Time on Fluid (Mi) 8386 6888 8863 6175 10965 5688 2630 477 23

Time on Filter (Mi) 8386 6888 8863 6175 10965 5688 2630 477 23

Fluid Maint. Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed

Filter Maint. Abn | Sev Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed N/Changed Changed

Fluid Typical | Base NO000 NO000 NO000 NO000 NO000 NO000 NO000 NO000 NO000

Iron (Fe) 150 | 400 32 27 28 26 49 35 8.2 6.9 15

Chromium (Cr) 20 | 40 1.5 1.3 1.6 1.4 2.3 1.8 0.6 0.4 0.9

Nickel (Ni) 5 | 10 1.9 1.5 1.8 1.3 2.1 2.3 0 0 0

Titanium (Ti) --- | --- 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0 0.1 0.3

Silver (Ag) 2 | 5 0.1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.1

Aluminum (Al) 40 | 90 10 9.9 4.3 3.6 5.8 4.2 1.8 2.7 20

Lead (Pb) 50 | 150 25 22 3.2 3.4 5.1 8.3 2.1 0 3.7

Copper (Cu) 155 | 250 9.7 8.9 12 17 10 14 1.6 1.6 5.6

Tin (Sn) 10 | 25 5.9 5.8 1.5 1.8 2.8 4.7 0.5 0.6 1.5

Silicon (Si) 30 | 75 18 18 11 11 13 13 8 13 41

Sodium (Na) 6.7 5.9 0.9 1.4 3.3 11 1.4 1.5 11

Potassium (K) 5.7 4.2 3.4 2.1 1.4 0.3 0 0 8.9

Boron (B) 24 24 29 31 35 33 1.9 2.2 6.8

Barium (Ba) 10 9.7 0.2 0.2 0.7 1 1.7 2.6 26

Molybdenum (Mo) 252 253 52 17 73 4.8 5 30 657

Magnesium (Mg) 386 354 520 627 404 676 8.9 8.8 15

Calcium (Ca) 2367 2195 2487 2367 2621 2250 1834 1931 1593

Phosphorus (P) 1024 953 919 938 895 981 857 896 902

Zinc (Zn) 1231 1135 1144 1164 1106 1221 973 1014 1028

Sulfur (S) 3317 3137 3157 3267 3047 3829 4527 4563 3050

Manganese (Mn) 4.3 4.2 2 2 8.2 13 23 4.8 8.4

Vanadium (V) 0.2 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0 0 0.3

Glycol POS

Soot(%) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Oxidation(PA) 56 50 64 70 58 74 13 13 16

Nitratrion(PA) 53 12 14 14 13 14 7 7 8

Sulfation(PA) 136 32 40 47 36 48 13 11 12

ZDDP 21 22 24 21 25 17 17 17

Kv@100°C 14 11 12.5 12 12.1 12.7 9.4 11.7 10

H2O(Emul) NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG

H2O(Free) NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG NEG

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[TeeDub]

You are still seeing the effects of the coolant leak in the elevated levels of bearing materials (Pb/Sn/Ni)....I'd recommend flushing the engine for 30 minutes in neutral, using the Amsoil engine flush and a new oil filter. Your silicon levels indicate you are ingesting too much dirt, so I'd address that as well.

This is NOT a long OCI for this engine/oil combo...I typically run this oil for 10,000 miles in my turbocharged Audi and it holds up very well.

TD

 

[Pablo]

So you have fixed the coolant leak? Or not?

What were the earlier oils?

 

[minimc]

Which silicon levels are you referring to... All? I found it amazing that the factory fill should be so dirty. I should've been clearer about the samples... Guess I skewed the picture some. Drained the factory fill (supposed to be Castrol 5w30, not sure which)@23mi, results are what you see. Next ran the Amsoil flush & a super cheap 5w30 through the engine (15min idle) to get whatever I could out of it. Next filled with Valvoline 10w40, broke in till 500 miles on the clock. Changed oil, again Valvoline 10w40 until 3000 miles on the clock. Ran Amsoil flush again (15 min. in neutral) then changed filter and went to the Amsoil 0w30.

Leak is still present (that I know of) not officially recognized/diagnosed by dealer... Seems to want to challenge the point. I believe its blatant, but need their say so in order to get warranty work done. That's part of the reason I'm asking you guys... I want to know what you think should be checked/serviced/replaced/rebuilt etc.

Compression: CYL 1=170, CYL 2=160, CYL 3=160, CYL 4=170
not certain if performed wet or dry, or progression from D-W

Leak-down: CYL 1=10%, CYL 2=24%, CYL 3=14%, CYL 4=18%

Interestingly the Castrol appears to have a moly component. I was not aware of this. Or could it be some engine bearing or piston-skirt coating wearing off?

Re: getting 10,000 mi out of this oil in your Audi turbo... are you suggesting that the oil isn't holding up as well for me as it is for you?

 

[Gary Allan]

Terry Dyson. Follow his advice and get his report/interpretation to take to your dealer.

 

[minimc]

Quote:

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Terry Dyson. Follow his advice and get his report/interpretation to take to your dealer.

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Kinda new to this... Where would I get Terry Dyson's advice from (here?)?

Thank you!

 

[Gary Allan]

He charges a very reasonable fee for the service that he provides. He'll discuss your issues in depth ...at length

He's a site sponsor.

http://www.dysonanalysis.com/

 

[minimc]

Hi,

I spoke with Terry & am sending him my results - (at this point) for evaluation. I wish I had the last fill to send him a sample, but I don't (dealer was too hasty). I do have the fill which tested positive for glycol, so I may follow up by sending him that.

Thanks for the steer. Will post Terry’s recommendations.

 

[Gary Allan]

Terry will get you straightened out. Armed with his report, they should be a little more cooperative. You get to send it over their heads to the zone rep ..who will know that it's going to obligate them to fix the real problem when it shows up after warranty. It may leverage them to fix it now and cut their losses. Later on they're gonna be putting in a short block instead of fixing a head gasket or whatever the problem is.

Good luck

 

[TeeDub]

I'd recommend running the Amsoil 10w-30, synthetic diesel oil (ACD), with short 5000 mile OCI's, until you can get this coolant leak fixed.

The second thing I'd do is thoroughly flush the cooling system and install the Amsoil, Propylene Glycol (PG), based Long Life coolant. The PG coolants are much less reactive with bearing materials in the event of a slow leak like this (they don't form the same kind of acidics when mixed with hydrocarbon based lubricants).

Changing to the PG coolant will buy you some time until you can properly fix this problem.

TD

 

[The Critic]

Quote:

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Leak is still present (that I know of) not officially recognized/diagnosed by dealer... Seems to want to challenge the point. I believe its blatant, but need their say so in order to get warranty work done. That's part of the reason I'm asking you guys... I want to know what you think should be checked/serviced/replaced/rebuilt etc.

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Hate to break it to you, but most OEMs that I know of pay little regard to these cheap, oil analysis results when it comes to warranty work.

The unit has to show physical signs of coolant leakage before they'll tear up the engine. And I'm not seeing any significant coolant leak here at all...Na/K readings are < 10 ppm across the board and are well within "noise levels" in my opinion. You may not have a leak at all...and the glycol reading may've been a false positive fluke.

If compression is OK, and there's no loss of coolant in the reservoir(s), and there's no overheating, then you may very well be out of luck.

 

[minimc]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Leak is still present (that I know of) not officially recognized/diagnosed by dealer... Seems to want to challenge the point. I believe its blatant, but need their say so in order to get warranty work done. That's part of the reason I'm asking you guys... I want to know what you think should be checked/serviced/replaced/rebuilt etc.

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Hate to break it to you, but most OEMs that I know of pay little regard to these cheap, oil analysis results when it comes to warranty work.

The unit has to show physical signs of coolant leakage before they'll tear up the engine. And I'm not seeing any significant coolant leak here at all...Na/K readings are < 10 ppm across the board and are well within "noise levels" in my opinion. You may not have a leak at all...and the glycol reading may've been a false positive fluke.

If compression is OK, and there's no loss of coolant in the reservoir(s), and there's no overheating, then you may very well be out of luck.

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Critic,
Why the flippant opening remark? It prejudices all that follows.

When you said “cheap, oil analysis” was it your intention to imply that only costly analyses would compel the OEM to properly regard any results when considering warranty work? If not, what did you mean?

Regarding the positive glycol (oil test). Yeah… I thought the same. Then I had the catch-can contents (residual vapour from intercooler/supercharger/crank case) tested. Also tested positive for Glycol… samples from two completely different sources, but same positive result. Thanks for your thoughts/analysis.

I just received further confirmation analysis (oil) today, which evidences a long-term trend of coolant contamination (sub 20K miles through current).

 

[benjamming]

Quote:

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Will post Terry’s recommendations.

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I assume you know this now, but Terry's interpretations are proprietary.

 

[The Critic]

Quote:

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Why the flippant opening remark? It prejudices all that follows.

When you said “cheap, oil analysis” was it your intention to imply that only costly analyses would compel the OEM to properly regard any results when considering warranty work? If not, what did you mean?

Regarding the positive glycol (oil test). Yeah… I thought the same. Then I had the catch-can contents (residual vapour from intercooler/supercharger/crank case) tested. Also tested positive for Glycol… samples from two completely different sources, but same positive result. Thanks for your thoughts/analysis.

I just received further confirmation analysis (oil) today, which evidences a long-term trend of coolant contamination (sub 20K miles through current).

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Sorry, I shouldn’t have used such language.

It’s very, very rare that OEMs will authorize warranty work for such a large repair (or any at all) based upon a few oil samples taken by the consumer, especially when it’s questionable as to whether or not the oil truly contains antifreeze. Not to question Terry, who I know is excellent at his work, but it could easily be argued by an OEM engineer and/or his reps that +/- 10 ppm on spectro oil analysis is “noise level” and may or may not be accurate.

In addition, OEMs do not use Blackstone, WearCheck, OAI, etc…all of the consumer oil analysis companies (as I call it) for the testing and validation of their OEM drain intervals. I was told by an engineer that they found that these oil analysis labs can be quite inaccurate and the sampling done by the consumer (technique used) varied and often caused significant variation in results…in other words, OEMs do not regard oil samples tested by these labs as super accurate, especially when sampled by a novice.

Ask CuteHumor on this board about his experience with Nissan. His Nissan 1.8 engine had a headgasket leak in the hundreds of ppm and Nissan still would not replace the headgasket unless a compression check or their other diagnostic techniques confirmed a coolant leak.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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It’s very, very rare that OEMs will authorize warranty work for such a large repair (or any at all) based upon a few oil samples taken by the consumer, especially when it’s questionable as to whether or not the oil truly contains antifreeze. Not to question Terry, who I know is excellent at his work, but it could easily be argued by an OEM engineer and/or his reps that +/- 10 ppm on spectro oil analysis is “noise level” and may or may not be accurate.

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Is this pulled from your vast life experience knowledge base, Michael?

If they still stallball him and stifle his efforts to get it fixed he still has recourse if and when the event occurs. This stuff happens quite often ..or rather is "not uncommon". You have a trans problem ..they say that it's not an issue ..charge you to change the fluid and send you on your way ..the thing blows apart 10k miles later ..you've got it noted on THEIR document that there was a problem.

Now what you may be saying (very poorly) is that he'll have no control over the REMEDY that they choose to employ to correct it...ala the "coolant tab" method for all those failed GM intake gaskets.

 

[minimc]

Just to update you folks...
This aint over yet… Unfortunately there's not much movement to report. Until I have some this thread will remain stale.

What is interesting (but not exactly surprising) is the lack of admission by anyone @ MINI/BMW corporate re: the accelerated wear. I calculated the lead wear and its somewhere around 586% increase in roughly 6k miles- as compared to historical. I am incredulous as to how they can suggest this is not abnormal wear.

As stated... wait & see, then I'll post you an update.

Thanks again for all of the thoughts, moral support and advise

 

[Bill in Utah]

A single UOA with letter from Terry got Ford to warrenty my 1999 Ford Taurus V6 when it had the feature of head gasket leaking @ 61k miles.

Car was 3 years old and had a 3yr or 36k warrenty whichever came first.

So it is possible to have a "normal" UOA get some folks moving. I did make Ford my hobby for a month or so..

They however did NOT seem interested when it had ANOTHER set of headgaskets go in the same engine @ 108k.

Bill

 

[hominid7]

Coolant leak or not, to my untrained eye your thicker Valvoline 10w40 and shorter OCI seemed to do a lot better in your wear numbers.

I would be very curious to see what something beefier like Rotella 5w40 or Castrol Syntec 5w40 and a relativly short OCI like 4000-5000 miles would produce.

Castrol Syntec 5w30 is a tad on the thin side for a German engine, IMHO.

What kind of oil cooler does this car have? I know old VW's had a known coolant leakage problem with their oil filter flange mounted oil to water cooler.