Hard costs to design/market/sell a new dog food?

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko

Believe me when I tell you that the more you learn about the manufacture of pet food, the more you'll quickly realize that the health of the animal is NOT what motivates manufacturers. Companion animals are simply a way to make money from an otherwise unusable by-product, i.e., foods and food waste that are not approved for human consumption.


And how do we judge health? Like I said our 1st dog, fed a variety of foods from "high quality" to "junk" lived a healthy 14 years and kidney failure ultimately did her in, not unheard of at that age and totally normal. Vet checkups were fine all those years.

And think about these animals in the wild. Dogs and Cats are scavengers. They will eat rotting carcasses and other things that are "unfit for human consumption". Heck, our first dog loved eating the Cat's Poop (and others). Grosses us out but animals in nature eat things that are totally fine for them but not fit for us. Even then stuff we deem "unfit for human consumption" somewhere someone eats and lives just fine. Even things fit for us are not all that healthy - mercury in fish, GMO, etc.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko

Believe me when I tell you that the more you learn about the manufacture of pet food, the more you'll quickly realize that the health of the animal is NOT what motivates manufacturers. Companion animals are simply a way to make money from an otherwise unusable by-product, i.e., foods and food waste that are not approved for human consumption.


And how do we judge health? Like I said our 1st dog, fed a variety of foods from "high quality" to "junk" lived a healthy 14 years and kidney failure ultimately did her in, not unheard of at that age and totally normal. Vet checkups were fine all those years.

And think about these animals in the wild. Dogs and Cats are scavengers. They will eat rotting carcasses and other things that are "unfit for human consumption". Heck, our first dog loved eating the Cat's Poop (and others). Grosses us out but animals in nature eat things that are totally fine for them but not fit for us. Even then stuff we deem "unfit for human consumption" somewhere someone eats and lives just fine. Even things fit for us are not all that healthy - mercury in fish, GMO, etc.


A raw, "rotting carcass" is WAY better than the stuff that the FDA allows commercial dog and cat food to be made of. Take those same rotting carcasses and heat treat them (which the FDA requires you to do, thereby destroying the harmful stuff but also destroying any nutritional value) and them pump that sh...I mean, stuff through an extruder (which kills off any remaining nutritional value), and then finish it off with a shiny spray of synthetic vitamins and minerals. Feed that to your animal week after week, month after month, year after year...and then ask yourself why 50% of the dogs over 10 years old die of cancer. Those that don't die of cancer will likely encounter liver or renal failure.

Ed

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B

There is very little R&D in this, the formulas have been perfected a long time ago.


Thank you for the feedback.

I've got to tell you, and I mean no disrespect, that I almost spit out my coffee laughing when you say the "formulas have been perfected"...

Do you mean, the formula that manufacturers use to create food that barely better than toxic waste, will sustain the test group of animals just long enough to pass the AAFCO feeding trials...and then produce the maximum profit? Is that the formula you're referring to?

Believe me when I tell you that the more you learn about the manufacture of pet food, the more you'll quickly realize that the health of the animal is NOT what motivates manufacturers. Companion animals are simply a way to make money from an otherwise unusable by-product, i.e., foods and food waste that are not approved for human consumption.

The figures for 2015 are not yet complete, but for 2014, the sales of cat and dog food alone (not even counting other animals) in the United States was $21.4 billion dollars! Source: http://www.petfoodinstitute.org/?page=PetFoodSales

Ed


formula to sell the product at a maximum profit. what else would it be?

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Of course that's the objective...but that's not the dishonest picture their advertising describes. And people don't really think the food that goes into the product looks like what's on the pretty photos on the bag, do they?

Ed

 

[AlienBug]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Feed that to your animal week after week, month after month, year after year...and then ask yourself why 50% of the dogs over 10 years old die of cancer. Those that don't die of cancer will likely encounter liver or renal failure.

Ed


Well considering that dogs on average live 11-13 years, and that the mortality rate of dogs is 100%, what exactly do you think it proves when old dogs die of cancer or liver and renal failure?

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Originally Posted By: AlienBug
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Feed that to your animal week after week, month after month, year after year...and then ask yourself why 50% of the dogs over 10 years old die of cancer. Those that don't die of cancer will likely encounter liver or renal failure.

Ed


Well considering that dogs on average live 11-13 years, and that the mortality rate of dogs is 100%, what exactly do you think it proves when old dogs die of cancer or liver and renal failure?


That's easy - it proves that feeding commercial food will condemn your dog to an early death and a variety of ailments along the way. Let's see how well you do if you ate nothing but "Happy Meals" every day of your life.

If you can find someone who home-cooks real food from the grocery store for their dog - ask them about their dog. Or ask a holistic veterinarian whose clients care for their dogs (or cat) in this manner. Dogs and cats that are cared for in this manner will outlive their "commercial-food" counterpart by many years and with substantially fewer "vet" visits.

My "vet" had a Border Collie who was 23 when he had to euthanize her only after she was attacked by 4 Rottweilers.

Cats can easily live into their late teens.

Ed

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko

A raw, "rotting carcass" is WAY better than the stuff that the FDA allows commercial dog and cat food to be made of. Take those same rotting carcasses and heat treat them (which the FDA requires you to do, thereby destroying the harmful stuff but also destroying any nutritional value) and them pump that sh...I mean, stuff through an extruder (which kills off any remaining nutritional value), and then finish it off with a shiny spray of synthetic vitamins and minerals. Feed that to your animal week after week, month after month, year after year...and then ask yourself why 50% of the dogs over 10 years old die of cancer. Those that don't die of cancer will likely encounter liver or renal failure.


Sorry I don't buy that. Really no different than humans. We heat treat out foods (it's called cooking), and do a lot of similar things to our food and we are living longer than ever before.

Maybe it's variety that has kept our dogs and cats healthy? We don't feed them the same stuff. It's the same principal for us humans. Feed me the same stuff every day and I'll either die from boredom or end up with some rare disease because it's the same stuff.

How long does the average wild wolf (dog's closest relative) live? Without getting killed by a predator most likely far less than an average pet.

I think part of the "issue" is one of general lack of care. Perhaps those that spend less on their food also don't get their dogs the proper exercise and other care so they have other health issues. Like I said our animals get fed variety of foods from cheap to expensive, proper exercise and live long happy lives.

I also don't think you can draw causation from cancer, liver failure, kidney failure and the type of food vs old age. Humans are living longer and longer and cancer is also increasing. Why? Could be genetics, environmental factors, or just age.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko


That's easy - it proves that feeding commercial food will condemn your dog to an early death and a variety of ailments along the way. Let's see how well you do if you ate nothing but "Happy Meals" every day of your life.


Prove that one. Variety is the best - be it dogs, humans, etc. You'd have the same outcome eating a Happy Meal every meal of every day vs grass fed organic beef and kale salads for every meal of every day. VARIETY!

Quote:

My "vet" had a Border Collie who was 23 when he had to euthanize her only after she was attacked by 4 Rottweilers.

Cats can easily live into their late teens.


That is an anomaly plain and simple. We think our cat is well into his teens - he was another shelter pet as well. Similar diet as the dog.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko


That's easy - it proves that feeding commercial food will condemn your dog to an early death and a variety of ailments along the way. Let's see how well you do if you ate nothing but "Happy Meals" every day of your life.


Prove that one. Variety is the best - be it dogs, humans, etc. You'd have the same outcome eating a Happy Meal every meal of every day vs grass fed organic beef and kale salads for every meal of every day. VARIETY!

Quote:

My "vet" had a Border Collie who was 23 when he had to euthanize her only after she was attacked by 4 Rottweilers.

Cats can easily live into their late teens.


That is an anomaly plain and simple. We think our cat is well into his teens - he was another shelter pet as well. Similar diet as the dog.

I'm not trying to convince anyone and nor would I. Life is too short and I won't waste my time.

It's a personal choice, ultimately, because it's your animal(s) and your choice. I've studied the data for years, talked with enough veterinarians (general practice, holistic, surgeons, epidemiologists, trained in Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine, etc., etc.) and owners who follow all methods of feeding. The pet food manufacturers are experts at convincing people their foods have the health of the animal as their top priority.

As far as my "vet" with his dog being an anomaly? Hardly...all of his cats live into their late teens or early twenties (he has two cats now and 1 dog) and they don't die of the common illnesses. Other people who do not feed conventional, commercial pet foods have the same results.

It's your choice of how you want to treat your animal. I know what works and what doesn't. I wish you luck.

Ed

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko

The pet food manufacturers are experts at convincing people their foods have the health of the animal as their top priority.

They are also masters of "you must feed your pet one food its whole life or bad things will happen". The wife and I argue over this all the time - I tend to get the dog various different brands of food all the time. She thinks that it should be one all the time. The dog doesn't seem to mind (although she doesn't like some) and IMHO she probably likes that better.

Quote:
As far as my "vet" with his dog being an anomaly? Hardly...all of his cats live into their late teens or early twenties (he has two cats now and 1 dog) and they don't die of the common illnesses. Other people who do not feed conventional, commercial pet foods have the same results.


We had 2 cats growing up - found them as kittens in the park. Got them when I was in 4th grade. One ate a wire tie that was on the floor and ultimately didn't make it when I was a junior in HS. The other died of old age when I was well out of college and married (~ 16 years). Their diet? 1 can of some wet food and whatever dry food was on sale.

This is an interesting article:
http://www.petmd.com/dog/wellness/evr_dg_how_long_do_dogs_live

Our last dog lived till 13 or 14 (she was a stray and the shelter estimated her age at about 1-2, we had her for 12.5 years). According to the chart, at 60lbs she lived till 87-93 human years. Pretty darn good! Up util her last year she still ran 3 miles with me 3-5x a week.

Quote:
It's your choice of how you want to treat your animal. I know what works and what doesn't. I wish you luck.


Yup. It is an interesting discussion and just like human health topics there are a lot of opinions and lots of information. Best to do what you think is right and monitor your pet's health and change what is not working.

We all know what works for us - I like the variety approach and it seems to be working for us and our animals. Others like different approaches. Both are right if the animal leads a long and healthy life, which, IMHO can be achieved with both methods.

 

[zzyzzx]

I don't know about the costs, but one thing I do know is that there are LOTS of cat food companies out there, and I would assume that applies to dogs as well. Competition is fierce. Personally I would avoid jumping into an already overcrowded market.

And yes most dry cat food is junk that will give your cat diabetes.

 

[IndyIan]

I think alot of pet health is genetics. It seems all the purebred retrievers I've know of have had lumps and health issues starting around 8 years, regardless of food quality. Other breeds seem to go longer. Our one Maremma mutt has had skin issues from the beginning regardless of the food we give her, she also had some poor alignment of her teeth and I think just lost the genetic lottery of her litter. Our other Maremma mutt from the same parents is a picture of health, regardless of how many dead rotten things he brings home and eats...
We used to mess around with raw food from a local butcher shop but it didn't seem to help the coat of our female and she looks the same eating mid range purina dog food. Our male eats it all and seems the same as well.
They live 100% outside in the barn and pasture, and our female will be 10 soon and our male 9. Not bad for a large breed in any situation I think.