Checking out. Good luck.
Greases with corrosion inhibitors, Solid lubricants and EP additives, salt water resistant, Semifluid?
- Thread starter Alexnharvey
- Start date
I'm sorry about the difficulty following my description. The bearing can be supported by two sealed cartridge units (6000-2RS) or two "cup and cone" (C&C) bearings. Sealed cartridge angular contact bearings are not normally specified..
The cup is a hardened steel race pressed into the housing, the cone is also steel on the axle and is tightened to the appropriate clearance and secured with a locknut. In the C&C bearing the cups face outward on each side. This arrangement is normally protected by one or more seals, unless it is solely for indoor use in which case it may be entirely open or metal shielded.
The sealed bearings are a a pressed interference fit in the housing and the axle also presses into them. Normally a pair of nuts on the axle are locked to prevent excessive preload.
C5 is greater than normal clearance. I think C1&2 are tighter, whereas C3-5 are looser. "Normal" bearing clearance is therefore a bit tighter than c3 I suppose.
I have previously experienced failures in both sealed and C&C bearings which I attribute to corrosion from water ingress. Some other users report race and bearing failure problems due to excessive preload from the manufacturer but I prevent this by checking adjustment prior to use.
I have not had problems since using the LPS thermaplex CS moly grease in either the cartridges or C&C bearings. However, we will see the real test this winter when road salt gritting begins again. This grease may be good enough but would something from the Shell gadus line or the CAM2 grease be a marginal improvement?
The cup is a hardened steel race pressed into the housing, the cone is also steel on the axle and is tightened to the appropriate clearance and secured with a locknut. In the C&C bearing the cups face outward on each side. This arrangement is normally protected by one or more seals, unless it is solely for indoor use in which case it may be entirely open or metal shielded.
The sealed bearings are a a pressed interference fit in the housing and the axle also presses into them. Normally a pair of nuts on the axle are locked to prevent excessive preload.
C5 is greater than normal clearance. I think C1&2 are tighter, whereas C3-5 are looser. "Normal" bearing clearance is therefore a bit tighter than c3 I suppose.
I have previously experienced failures in both sealed and C&C bearings which I attribute to corrosion from water ingress. Some other users report race and bearing failure problems due to excessive preload from the manufacturer but I prevent this by checking adjustment prior to use.
I have not had problems since using the LPS thermaplex CS moly grease in either the cartridges or C&C bearings. However, we will see the real test this winter when road salt gritting begins again. This grease may be good enough but would something from the Shell gadus line or the CAM2 grease be a marginal improvement?
I understand all that ( first 2 bolded parts) but you are specifically currently using 2 ( quantity) of bearing # 60002RS and no C&C. Right?
It was your use of the word "angular" that prompted my question ( the C&C are referred to as "tapered" in industry speak- I was asking for clarification)
Now I ask again, ( last 2 bolded parts)- I know the "normal" design, are you using the outer seals?
That can change things ( look up hoop stress on a bearing)- that "interference" can/will alter race geometry and have an effect on that bearing class. Do you know or have the ISO fit class for that bearing/shaft fit?
They get looser as they go up but "normal" depends on the application- not the bearing. You have an axle shaft now using Conrad bearings ( per your description and #)- that's loosey-goosey. That's why I asked earlier what axial loading this was subjected to.
Describe these failures please. Was a proper RCFA performed or just an "unqualified guess" as to the cause? ( that's extremely important)
What exactly failed? What were the failure modes? This is critical because that information will dictate what actually needs to be done.
My unqualified guess. Open the bearings up and they're rusty.
I'm using both types of bearing in my 'fleet' on different vehicles. My preference is for the tapered C&C arrangement because it uses a slightly larger ball than the 6000 (1/4" vs 3/16).
I'm using both types of bearing in my 'fleet' on different vehicles. My preference is for the tapered C&C arrangement because it uses a slightly larger ball than the 6000 (1/4" vs 3/16).
Not surprising but did they ever stop turning?
Still, that's a very light application ( as far as bearings go) and each one of those bearings (using the SKF version- other manufacturers may vary) is about #1000 radial load per bearing so you are nowhere near overloading anything. From your own info...
6- Deep Row Ball Bearing (Conrad)
0- Extra light duty
00- 10mm bore
2RS- Both sides sealed ( which is not like a lip seal)
Put in the grease fitting and pump them jam pack full to keep everything out
They never stopped turning but efficiency is very important in this application, power input can be less than 100w.
So, what grease would you use?
So, what grease would you use?
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They never stopped turning but efficiency is very important in this application, power input can be less than 100w.
So, what grease would you use?
That's what I'm trying to help you with but there's a lot more to selecting a proper lubricant with a proper lubricating schema and PM routing than a group think based parliamentary guess based solely on "Here's what I think".
You say that's important ( and it is usually) but efficiency of what exactly and how are you measuring it?
Assuming the device is mechanically sound, the "efficiency" of an anti friction bearing is on the high end regardless.
The bearing only cares about the RPM and axial/radial loads and that you lube it enough to handle that.
What you actually need is to stop looking for a "miracle grease" rendered down from 100% extra virgin unicorn oil and look at the entire requirement as a whole and put the problem to bed permanently.
In your case, you have an application where salty free water will ingress with an unknown degree of particulate matter. You say you see rust inside. You did not describe any physical damage to the bearing other than that.
So, based on that ( unless you have more data) and the bearing you specify, here is a very basic observation based recommendation. ( with no warranty or guarantee expressed or implied obviously as I am basing this on your statements only)
1- Pick the best water/corrosion resistant grease available in your area ( none of them will have a nickels worth of difference in your application)
2- Install an Autoluber ( recommend Chesterton Pulsar Lube given its higher pressure and ability to lube multiple bearings) to keep the bearing 100% full at all times with a continuous purge. This would be in the middle where you would put the grease fitting and you would remove the inner seals.
3- Make an appropriate PM program to check the luber and clean the ejecta
That should fix you right up
Which hasn't really advanced me beyond where I started although we've been on a nice jaunt round the houses.
1- Pick the best water/corrosion resistant grease available in your area ( none of them will have a nickels worth of difference in your application)
2- Install an Autoluber ( recommend Chesterton Pulsar Lube given its higher pressure and ability to lube multiple bearings) to keep the bearing 100% full at all times with a continuous purge. This would be in the middle where you would put the grease fitting and you would remove the inner seals.
3- Make an appropriate PM program to check the luber and clean the ejecta
Best answer you are going to get
2- Install an Autoluber ( recommend Chesterton Pulsar Lube given its higher pressure and ability to lube multiple bearings) to keep the bearing 100% full at all times with a continuous purge. This would be in the middle where you would put the grease fitting and you would remove the inner seals.
3- Make an appropriate PM program to check the luber and clean the ejecta
Best answer you are going to get
Let me make it really simple. Which calcium sulfonate greases have the most corrosion inhibitors, some solid lubricants.
Let me answer you even simpler.
You want the most by volume or weight?
All of that information is a manufacturers IP and they aren't going to part with it so you will never know that level of detail. Send them emails and ask if they will give it to you because you wont find it on the PDS/TDS.
Even then, as stated before, to eliminate the problem you talk about isn't going to be found in any specific miracle grease.
I do not know but CA sulfonate has enough natural rust protection it pass rust tests so no one I know will add anything extra and moly is normaly
3-5% I have a 40% moly I make BUT that will cause different problems in a bearing. As stated your problem is more the ingress of not just water but salt water thats about as bad as it gets. Unless they make a Stainless steel bearing for caustic or chloride enviroments you are about as good as it gets.
As such work on keeping the water out.
All of this to get to what I originally said, use a calcium sulfonate. Nothing gained. I suggest a base oil viscosity of ISO 460. You'll get a good, near waterproof seal, great rust protection as well as EP/AS and AW. Look for an ASTM D4048 Copper Strip Corrosion result of 1a or 1b in case any yellow metals may be present at some point. 3-5% moly gets into the range of mobile equipment greases used in mining. A single point lubricator, maybe a 30-day unit, will give slow progressive feed to assist with the positive sealing but be sure that internal bearing pressure doesn't damage the seals.
I'm not looking for a miracle grease squeezed from unicorn horn, that's your straw man.
I just wanted to know which ones have a little CI and which have a lot. If you don't know it's fine to say so. I thought someone here might know even if it's not published.
Yep, pretty much looking at 460 base weights. There are no yellow metals in the unit. I'll continue packing the bearings and filling the centre cavity. I'll add a grease port in the centre but a continuous feed is not possible.
I just wanted to know which ones have a little CI and which have a lot. If you don't know it's fine to say so. I thought someone here might know even if it's not published.
Yep, pretty much looking at 460 base weights. There are no yellow metals in the unit. I'll continue packing the bearings and filling the centre cavity. I'll add a grease port in the centre but a continuous feed is not possible.
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Most greases are compounded with rust and corrosion inhibitors that provide a range of effectiveness. Calcium sulfonate probably offers the highest protection potential with respect to rust inhibition because the thickener is a rust inhibitor. Calcium sulfonate grease also have a great texture. They have good retention properties and a bit of tack. They resist water infiltration.
