Diesel Top End Cleaning? (very dirty pictures inside :) )

porterdog · Sep 11, 2003

Have any of you veteran experimenters done mist-based top engine cleaning on a diesel vehicle? The VW TDI is known for intake-tract deposits:

(EGR Plenum, just upstream of intake manifold)

(Inlet to intake manifold, just downstream of EGR plenum)

(View of intake valve, taken through intake port)

Nice, huh? These are all photos of parts off my girlfriend's Golf.

While I was able the clean out the intake manifold and the egr plenum, the ports in the head and the CC are untouched. I'd _love_ to do a top end cleaning on this car but am unsure if damage would result on a diesel...

FWIW, Amsoil said "No way, buddy" when I asked if I could use PowerFoam on it.

Any thoughts?

TIA,
Robert

[ September 12, 2003, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: porterdog ]

msparks · Sep 11, 2003

Once you get it cleaned, you need to have someone hook it up to the VAG-Com and reduce the duty cycle of the EGR.

Also make sure you use the best diesel fuel you can find, I also use Amsoil Cetane Boost and the Diesel concentrate about every other tank or so.

Make sure you are using a top quality oil as well. If your Using Amsoil or Delvac1 you are doing good already.

If you want more info contact someone who does upsolute. Chipping the car will also help with some of the buildup.

email me if you want some more information or contacts. Can't post the link on here

msparks · Sep 11, 2003

Hahaha,

Just wait until all Diesel have the EGR installed. I think this is going to be a real big problem in the near future, I think the new Ford PSD 6.0 liter has and egr as well. Since it's only been out a couple of months it's too early to tell. I'm sure we'll start hearing about it next year, by 2006 I think all diesels will require EGR's, but too the Diesel Fuel is supposed to get better by then. Hopefully will start seeing more 50 cetane fuel and super low sulphur.

FowVay · Sep 11, 2003

I know that Amsoil says not to use the PowerFoam on the engine while it's running,,, but if you'll remove the EGR valve and the intake manifold (a simple but time consuming task) and spray them both heavily with PowerFoam and take them to the carwash you'll be amazed at how clean they become. The combination of PF and high pressure water blow all of that gunk off beautifully. I do this task every 60,000 miles whether it needs it or not

.

You should remove your girlfriends intercooler and the air/oil separator that is in the intake just prior to the intercooler and you'll be amazed at how much oil will be in there - probably as much as 6 ounces depending on how long it's been between cleanings.

This whole design is poor. They should have used a air/oil separator on the crankcase vent to prevent the oil mist from being drawn into the intake.

Believe it or not, I used the GC 0W-30 for 10,000 miles just to see how it would do in the summer heat of Atlanta and I actually noticed the intake seemed a bit cleaner. I normally use Amsoil 10/40 and Delvac-1 but both of those oils have resulted in heavy intake sludge. The GC 'appeared' to be a slight improvement. I also have my EGR duty cycle reduced, I'm Upsoluted, and I run SoyShield (my new favorite additive). I have run veggie based biodiesel at a B20 mix for several years but it didn't seem to impact the sludge.

rpn453 · Sep 12, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by msparks:
Hahaha,
Just wait until all Diesel have the EGR installed. I think this is going to be a real big problem in the near future,

I don't think it will be much of a problem, as it is very easy to remove or disable the EGR valve!

[ September 12, 2003, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: rpn453 ]

porterdog · Sep 12, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by msparks:
Jeez, that is scary.

I have 15,000 on my TDI which is totally stock.

Just to be clear- the VAG-com mod and the PCV mod were done AFTER that mess accumulated

rpn453- On the VW's at least, it's not that simple. Making the change thatway will get you a CEL/MIL. The ECU looks for the MAF signal to drop after opening the EGR valve; no drop and you get the CEL

Robert

Amkeer · Sep 12, 2003

You can try running Stanadyne Diesel Treatment. I would pull filter and fill with the Stanadyne and also put some in the tank and take it on a highway cruise. Eventually the use of the Stanadyne will dissolve the goop. As far as the goop in the intake you may be able to spray some Stanadyne in the manifold and scrub away. I would mix it with Diesel fuel.

Daily Drives
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, Impulse Red, Peppy 2.7 Liter 4 Banger, Running Mobil1 Synthetics SS 5W-30.
ODO 4700 Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner, Evergreen, 3.0 V6, Running Mobil1 Synthetic SS 10W-30.
ODO 81700 Miles.

[ September 12, 2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Amkeer ]

Neil Womack · Sep 12, 2003

porterdog

Are you using Old Navy's oil seperator, eclipse or a homemade seperator?

rpn453 · Sep 12, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by porterdog:
rpn453- On the VW's at least, it's not that simple. Making the change thatway will get you a CEL/MIL. The ECU looks for the MAF signal to drop after opening the EGR valve; no drop and you get the CEL

Robert

MAF??? Apparently I'm out of touch when it comes to modern diesels.
I guess you'd have to figure out a way to fool the computer too. Might be tricky though. Maybe a chip would do that?

Shannow · Sep 12, 2003

I'd be loath to spray/tip anything down the intake of a diesel that might combust.

Added fuel to an engine that runs excess air can cause uncontrolled runaway.

Also, given the high C.R., it's going to be far easier to hydraulic a diesel than a petrol motor.

Christopher R. Wise · Sep 12, 2003

Well You will have to manaully clean all of it out.

Now I run a B20 BIO DIESEL(Soy based), which runs much cleaner, I would try that for a while, and see what that does.

Bio Diesel locater .

Good luck!!

CRW

unDummy · Sep 12, 2003

Dirty fuel + dirty combustion = dirty deposits

Try BIODIESEL or a blend.
I'm also wondering if a little propane can help.

porterdog · Sep 12, 2003

Oil is Delvac 1. VAG-com mod is done. I installed an air/oil separator in the PCV line. These parts are clean now (I didn't just take them apart to look

) but the car is still down on power (I'll clean the IC eventually; my hands are still dirty from the above mess). She runs BP or Mobil fuel, typically with Redline DFC.

I just want to clean the ports and valves.

msparks · Sep 12, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by porterdog:
Oil is Delvac 1. VAG-com mod is done. I installed an air/oil separator in the PCV line. These parts are clean now (I didn't just take them apart to look

) but the car is still down on power (I'll clean the IC eventually; my hands are still dirty from the above mess). She runs BP or Mobil fuel, typically with Redline DFC.

I just want to clean the ports and valves.

Jeez, that is scary.

I have 15,000 on my TDI which is totally stock. I guess I need to get the VAG-Com mod done here soon. Been wanting to get it chipped.

msparks · Sep 12, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by porterdog:
.

I just want to clean the ports and valves.

maybe you can try Sea Foam and use the spray.

porterdog · Sep 13, 2003

Thanks for the suggestions, all. One thing you have to keep in mind is that this is a direct injection system, so IMO NO fuel-based cleaning approach will work, since none of these parts are ever touched by fuel. While running bioD or treated fuel might somehow change the constituents contained in the EGR flow that should be a non-issue for this car since the EGR valve duty cycle was dramatically reduced by the VAG-com mod. (rpn453- that's your chip mod, sort of. That's the only approach likely to work to eliminate EGR) We'd try bioD but the nearest vendor is about 70 miles away

.

Shannow- I think you're right about the spray cleaner, though I think that the issue is less the danger of hydrolock and more the likelyhood that the auto-ignition point of any of the spray cleaners (or thier propellants!) is at lower compression than that of diesel fuel. Imagine having your plugs fire at 30-50* BTDC at idle in a spark-ignition motor: Ungood!

Neil Womack- the separator is a DIY unit. I clocked the VW disk separator (on top of the valve cover) 90* and ran a hose downhill to a small nalgene bottle clamped to the oilfilter housing. The inlet hose runs to the bottom of this bottle, and there's stainless steel wool packed around that. The outlet hose is connected to the lid of the bottle, and runs uphill to a small Fram (uh oh

)fuel filter (nice- it's got a clear body) and then to the inlet on the intake plenum. The downhill line is brown, and while the uphill line is still pretty clear you can see that the fuel filter element is now brown from oil vapor... Mail me direct if you'd like pics.

Robert

[ September 13, 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: porterdog ]