Concrete driveway expansion joint

[zorobabel]

I'm extending my driveway and pouring concrete from the curb to the garage.
The garage side has a brick section with some kind of mortar foundation/base.
How would I install an expansion strip without removing the mortar base (which might bring down the whole brick section once I start hammering...) ?
I hope the photos make sense.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Typically you don't install an expansion strip.

 

[alarmguy]

First let me say this can be wrong advice but this is what the builders concrete company (and I dont think it is just one company) does throughout the new construction here. Im not sure your climate there but ours will vary from close to 100 as a peak in summer to a low of 20 both not sustained for long periods of time.
As soon as I saw your photos this took place about nine months ago and wasnt aware this is what they do. At first I thought, well that sucks but then after a while it made sense I guess.

They slice the expansion joints in half down the middle. I believe they are 4 inch strips? They cut them down to 2 inches knowing expansion will still crack at below the joint since the joint is weakened by 50% instead of the concrete in the middle.
Whether or not this is kosher I dont know/doubt (?) but I see the point and I was good with it after thinking about it.
If those photos were my house I would be doing this. No way would I touch the base of the brick work but that is just me. I would lay a thin strip of expansion joint on top of the concrete base of the brick and cut the expansion joint down to the level of the new concrete.

 

[zorobabel]

First let me say this can be wrong advice but this is what the builders concrete company (and I dont think it is just one company) does throughout the new construction here. Im not sure your climate there but ours will vary from close to 100 as a peak in summer to a low of 20 both not sustained for long periods of time.
As soon as I saw your photos this took place about nine months ago and wasnt aware this is what they do. At first I thought, well that sucks but then after a while it made sense I guess.

They slice the expansion joints in half down the middle. I believe they are 4 inch strips? They cut them down to 2 inches knowing expansion will still crack at below the joint since the joint is weakened by 50% instead of the concrete in the middle.
Whether or not this is kosher I dont know/doubt (?) but I see the point and I was good with it after thinking about it.
If those photos were my house I would be doing this. No way would I touch the base of the brick work but that is just me. I would lay a thin strip of expansion joint on top of the concrete base of the brick and cut the expansion joint down to the level of the new concrete.

Thanks!
After many readings, I finally understood the method you described (getting old). Any expansion would still push against the brick base. On the other hand the expansion foam they sell is 4" like everyone pours only 4" thick concrete. I'm doing a minimum of 5".

 

[RhondaHonda]

I’m not sure what you are asking but I think you’d want a piece along the base of the brick wall, like a piece of baseboard but it will be level with the top of the concrete. Typically 3/4-1” wide. You don’t want the concrete shifting and breaking the bricks/mortar joints.

Like pictured below. Go ahead and break out that damaged concrete while you have everything ready for the new pour.

 

[Pablo]

Kinda close to Sacramento, I don't think you have much worry about frost heave. Maybe up in the foothills. More worry about seismic movement.

Don't remove the brick foundation!

They will be tied together. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just have normal crack control zones, because concrete will crack regardless. Make sure they block up heavy mesh.

 

[zorobabel]

Here are some better photos.

 

[zorobabel]

I’m not sure what you are asking but I think you’d want a piece along the base of the brick wall, like a piece of baseboard but it will be level with the top of the concrete. Typically 3/4-1” wide. You don’t want the concrete shifting and breaking the bricks/mortar joints.

Like pictured below. Go ahead and break out that damaged concrete while you have everything ready for the new pour.

View attachment 215940

Thanks, the problem is that the brick foundation gets in the way of board...
The side walk... will have to wait for another time, I'm done working in the heat.

 

[RhondaHonda]

That makes more sense. I’d likely rip the strip to fit and potentially saw cut that concrete chunk that sticks out but understand if you don’t have access to a gas chop saw.

If it isn’t at the bottom of a hill or getting pushed from street creep on a bend, it probably won’t matter at all if you just poured up to the brick.

 

[zorobabel]

Kinda close to Sacramento, I don't think you have much worry about frost heave. Maybe up in the foothills. More worry about seismic movement.

Don't remove the brick foundation!

They will be tied together. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just have normal crack control zones, because concrete will crack regardless. Make sure they block up heavy mesh.

Yes, I'm not worried about frost.
I've already poured 2/3 of it, I'm on the last section. "They" is me with a mixer. I've used 1/2" pink bar for reinforcement in a grid spaced about 17" apart.

 

[zorobabel]

That makes more sense. I’d likely rip the strip to fit and potentially saw cut that concrete chunk that sticks out but understand if you don’t have access to a gas chop saw.

If it isn’t at the bottom of a hill or getting pushed from street creep on a bend, it probably won’t matter at all if you just poured up to the brick.

There is a significant incline to the driveway, but the brick section is at the top. Closest turn is 3 houses over.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Here are some better photos.

View attachment 215947

View attachment 215948

View attachment 215949

I think it's a regional thing. I live in a townhome community of 180 units. Every unit with a garage on grade has combined poured concrete driveway w/walkway and the concrete poured right up to the brick. None of it has cracked in 24 years. The only place where there's an expansion joint at the slab is where the concrete driveway meets the slab leading into the garage.

An expansion joint won't keep concrete from cracking due to settlement.