Chrysler Sludge Monster

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I read an interesting article in the automotive section of the Los Angeles Times today. Appartly, the Chrysler 2.7 liter engine is a sludge monster. One woman who changed her oil every month had her engine to seize with only 70,000 odd miles on it. There were also other report of the samething happening to people with only 60,000 miles on their engine. Diamler-Chrysler denies that there is a problem.
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Yep, I've seen some articles even here on Bob's as it being a "sludge monster". Of course in all fairness how "faithfully" was the oil really changed? Of course if they used the cheapest dino and changed every 7,500 miles no matter how long it took them to get there then I can understand the sludging.

Whimsey
 
quote:

Diamler-Chrysler denies that there is a problem.

They denied there was a problem with the ball joints wanting to fall out of the dodge dakota while it was moving, till the gov'ment stepped in.

Most carmakers will deny everything to save face and will do almost anything to prevent a "recall".
 
Here is the article from the LA Times:

YOUR WHEELS
Chrysler doesn't budge on sludge
Drivers complain that the 2.7-liter engine is prone to seizing up, but the auto maker blames poor maintenance.
By Ralph Vartabedian
Times Staff Writer

December 15, 2004

Lisa Spilker has a shiny white 2001 Chrysler Concorde parked in her driveway, but it isn't going anywhere. The car's 2.7-liter engine was destroyed by oil sludge several months ago and now Spilker can't afford the $6,500 cost of a new engine.

Chrysler officials told the woman, who lives in Medical Lake, Wash., near Spokane, that the failure was caused by neglected maintenance, though she insists she changed the oil monthly and tried to take good care of the vehicle. The engine, which has 72,000 miles of use, seized up a few blocks from home.

"I'm still making payments and paying for insurance," she lamented recently.

Spilker's experience is hardly unique. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has logged more than 400 consumer complaints about oil sludge damage to the Chrysler 2.7-liter engine. The Center for Auto Safety, a consumer advocacy group, has a database of more than 500 consumer complaints about the engine, used in Concorde, Intrepid, Sebring and other models. Internet sites are rife with diatribes against the machine.

Sludge damage is popping up more and more frequently in many makes and models. Experts can't exactly identify the common thread in all these ruined engines, but modern, highly efficient, small engines seem increasingly susceptible to total failure from oil sludge.

In a letter to DaimlerChrysler chief Dieter Zetsche, the Center for Auto Safety called on the company to extend warranties on sludge damage for owners of cars equipped with the 2.7-liter engine. So far, the company is sticking to its original warranty, which expires after 36,000 miles for models before 2002.

But even engines damaged within the terms of the original warranty are not always covered by Chrysler. The company acknowledges that it has refused to make repairs to destroyed engines in some cases where consumers cannot document that they or previous owners did recommended oil changes.

"DaimlerChrysler's response to date has been to stonewall and deny that there is a problem on Chrysler vehicles," says Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety. Ditlow says it is not the owners of the 2.7-liter engine who are responsible for the failures, but the engine design itself.

Chrysler spokesman Sam Locricchio denies that the 2.7-liter engine is defective.

"The majority of cases we have seen [have] been a failure to follow the oil change schedule that is appropriate to the driver," he says.

Exactly what is an appropriate oil change schedule is not entirely clear. The Chrysler Sebring owners manual, for example, recommends oil changes at 7,500 miles for its A schedule and 3,000 miles for its B schedule. The B schedule is supposed to apply to severe or extreme conditions, but a close reading of the criteria suggests that any motorist in an urban environment such as Southern California is in an extreme condition. The manual cites short trips, extensive idling and stop-and-go driving.

Chrysler now recommends its current models with the 2.7-liter engine go no farther than 6,000 miles between oil changes.

If Chrysler is right that owners of vehicles with 2.7-liter engines are abusing them and causing the problem, then why are there so many failures of that specific engine and not all of Chrysler's power plants? Locricchio says that the 2.7-liter engine is a small engine and is often used in vehicles that end up in corporate fleets or rental fleets.

But Ditlow says the engine is obviously defective and that arguments about fleet usage don't wash. The engine is such a well-known dud that several companies are now providing upgrades that put different engines into cars originally equipped with 2.7-liter engines or offer redesigned 2.7-liter engines that have improved oil circulation.

The standard 2.7-liter engine, made in Kenosha, Wis., has an aluminum block and aluminum cylinder head. Although not all aluminum engines are defective, many are proving to be less durable and less able to withstand tough conditions than cast-iron engines.

From the reports he has received, the Chrysler 2.7-liter engine is typically failing at about 60,000 miles, Ditlow says. "You wouldn't expect to see catastrophic engine failures under 100,000 miles," he said. "In some cases, these engines are failing at 40,000 miles, but Chrysler has denied warranty coverage."

In modern engines, oil is called upon to do more than ever before. It contains additives, such as detergents, to help wash crud and varnish off engine parts, and dispersants keep it suspended in the oil. But not long after 15,000 miles in most engines, the oil can become saturated with contaminants, oil experts say.

Whether sludge forms depends on the quality of the engine, whether the piston rings and valve guides keep contaminants sealed from the oil and whether the cooling system prevents oil from cooking at hot spots.

Of course, Chrysler isn't the first auto maker to have a sludge issue. Two years ago, Toyota was stung by hundreds of complaints about its four-cylinder engines. After initially balking, it extended warranty coverage for engine sludge damage on its affected vehicles.

Spilker is hoping Chrysler eventually relents and changes its warranty policy, as well. In the meantime, her family was forced to buy an inexpensive used Ford Escort, while the immobile Concorde decorates their home's driveway.

"I am really disappointed," said Spilker, a payroll clerk at a local school district. "Chrysler is not backing its product."
 
It will be interesting to see if the problem continues with the shorter severe service oil change interval now required by Chrysler and also the newly available ILSAC GF-4 motor oil.
 
quote:

Originally posted by SSDude:
I read an interesting article in the automotive section of the Los Angeles Times today. Appartly, the Chrysler 2.7 liter engine is a sludge monster. One woman who changed her oil every month had her engine to seize with only 70,000 odd miles on it. There were also other report of the samething happening to people with only 60,000 miles on their engine.

I can't envision any circumstances that would cause a properly functioning engine to sludge with monthly oil changes. This reminds me of the Audi 5000 "sudden acceleration problem" that caused Audi to completely revamp their brakes and transmission interface, after which it finally became clear that the problem consisted of people hitting the gas instead of the brakes.

I talked to a Toyota factory service rep who told me that they had one of their sludge monsters in the shop with the engine apart, a stack of quick lube receipts showing regular oil and filter changes, and the oil filter that the technician had removed from the failed engine. That oil filter was the OEM filter that had never been off the engine.

So, either the poor lady with the car was a con woman or the quick lube joint was charging her for oil filters that she never got.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Mickey_M:
I talked to a Toyota factory service rep who told me that they had one of their sludge monsters in the shop with the engine apart, a stack of quick lube receipts showing regular oil and filter changes, and the oil filter that the technician had removed from the failed engine. That oil filter was the OEM filter that had never been off the engine.

I'd like to know how the rep determined that the oil filter was the exact same one that was installed on the engine when it came off of the assembly line.
 
quote:

Originally posted by road_rascal:
I'd like to know how the rep determined that the oil filter was the exact same one that was installed on the engine when it came off of the assembly line.

The OEM filters are generally specifically marked, with unique identifiers and sometimes a different design than those in the aftermarket that go to the dealers.

With Chrysler, for example, the OEM filters often had an additional small screen on the intake side which served two purposes - it caught some larger metal particles and debris that got by in manufacture, and it left a trail for service reps and the factory of debris that led to warranty claims.

I've never worked for Toyota so I am not sure what their particular tell-tale signs are.
 
Toyota puts a simple yellow mark on the end of the filter. Ford uses a blue mark. Spark plugs are also marked. There are alot of things you dont know of that the manufacture has done that tells them what we have and have not done.
 
Chrysler 2.7L V6


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Let’s discuss the 1998-2004 Chrysler 2.7L V6 engine (VIN codes R, U and V).

Some of these engines are failing prematurely due to the buildup of sludge caused by high engine operating temperatures. The three problems most often reported are tensioner failure, oil consumption and engine bearing failure.

When this oil sludge condition exists, the engine is not able to send the proper amount of oil to critical components. Most often, the oil will pool in the heads, which affects the operation of the valves and PCV system, causing oil to be burned. Why does the oil pool? The return drains that lead back to the oil pan are most often the main component affected by sludge — they become blocked.

To make matters worse, the oil pump screen can also be covered with sludge, meaning the oil pump is unable to pump as much oil as it needs to.

If a customer’s engine is already damaged, there’s not much you can do. But for those without damage, a good way to clean out the sludge is to repeatedly clean the engine with a chemical oil flush.

Another way to reduce the chance of engine damage is to recommend very frequent oil changes — possibly as little as 1,000 miles. Or recommend synthetic motor oil (but this should be done only after the engine has been flushed).

One bit of advice is to inform your customers upfront that they have an engine that could develop problems in the future, but not because of your products or services.

Tip provided by Scotti Lee, operator of Oil Change Express, 122 N. DuPont Highway, New Castle, DE 19720. (302) 324-1900.


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Technical Tips is a column for fast lube operators and suppliers to share practical solutions to problems common throughout the industry. The author of each tip published will receive a free one-year (12 months/12 issues) subscription or a free one-year extension to an existing U.S. subscription. Email tips to [email protected], mail tips to NOLN, 1617 27th Street, #130, Lubbock, TX 79405-1402 or FAX to (806)762-4023.

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quote:

So, either the poor lady with the car was a con woman or the quick lube joint was charging her for oil filters that she never got.

Most women I know follow the dealer's or Lube Joint's recommendations, maybe.

I question the lady's statement about monthly oil changes. Most women I know are lucky to remember to bring the vehicle in under 3-months.
 
When someone says something stupid like "I changed the oil monthly" the BS Flag goes up the pole. Bet she didnt bother to change the oil on a regular basis and is covering her *** .

Reminds me of brother in law, had a Nissan 240sx POS, was overheating and he drove it to my in laws summer house. Looked at it and asked when was the last time you changed your coolant, "oh I do that twice a year"" LOL too funny. Got to buy himself a new car after he dumped about grand into the thing.

Oh, LA Times, what a good rag to get info from regarding automotive topics
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VNT
 
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